Israel's present suffering due to disobedience and antichrist spirit.

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Daniel David, Jan 3, 2003.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Any thoughts about that?
     
  2. Refreshed

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    No, it is due to a bunch of Islamic Jihad-types that want to push the Jews into the sea. That's how I see it, anyway.
     
  3. Caretaker

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    http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/palstate.html

    ·We have all been had: The belief that giving the Palestinians a state will bring peace is a delusion. The truth is that they want it all. The short-term goal is a state consisting of the West Bank and Gaza. The long-term goal is a state that includes all of "historical Palestine," including Jordan.

    Let us examine the truths here:

    1. There never was a Palestinian state or a Palestinian nation. There are no Palestinian people, per se. Rather, these are Arabs living in a region that historically has been called many things, including "Palestine."

    2. Israel did not go to war against a Palestinian state and occupy its land. Rather, Israel was attacked by six Arab countries at once. She defended herself, defeated her attackers, and won the so-called territories, not from the Palestinians, but from Jordan and Egypt.

    3. Jerusalem was never the capital of any state but Israel. It was certainly never the capital of a country that never existed. Why should the Palestinians get any part of it? Because they want it? Because they have terrorists?

    4. Jerusalem, under the current Israeli control, is a free and open city. Israel, as a democracy, guarantees freedom of religion within its borders. Contrast this fact with areas that have come under Palestinian occupation. What percentage of Christians have left in recent years because they cannot stand the harassment and persecution?

    5. Most Arabs living in Palestine today are not indigenous to the region. It was not until after the Jews had changed deserts and swamps into a productive and thriving land that the Arabs started migrating there. Arafat himself was born and raised in Cairo, Egypt. Did you know that?
    The belief that giving the Palestinians a state will bring peace is a delusion.

    The truth is that they want it all. The short-term goal is a state consisting of the West Bank and Gaza. The long-term goal is a state that includes all of "historical Palestine," including Jordan.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity....yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel
    PLO Executive Committee Member Zuhair Muhsin:.

    or how about this one?

    On the 26th of May, Having successfully encircled Israel, President Nasser of Egypt declared,
    "Our basic goal is the destruction of Israel. “

    Here is another:

    “The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromise.”

    Yassar Arafat 1970

    Yet another:

    “Arab policy at this stage has but two objectives. The first, the elimination of the traces of the 1967 aggression through an Israeli withdrawal from all the territories it occupied that year. The second objective is the elimination of the traces of the 1948 aggression, by the means of the elimination of the State of Israel itself. This is, however, as yet an abstract, undefined objective, and some of us have erred in commencing the latter step before the former.”
    Mohammed Heikal , Sadat confidant

    Sadly, most of the arab people who have suffered the most through this continuing battle are but pawns...exploited by their own political leaders for the love of power for a few.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  4. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Refreshed, God promised them peace when they were obedient to him.

    John says that whoever denies that God came in the flesh is an antichrist. They deny the Messiah. Therefore...

    Btw, who is more wicked, the Islamic Jihaders or a rabbi who teaches works salvation?
     
  5. Refreshed

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    Ooooh. Interesting point, and interesting question. I would still say it was the Islamic Jihaders because their killing is immediate, while there is still chance for someone to be saved if they've sat under a Rabbi.
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Okay it is a trick question. Scripture does more to warn about false teachers than murderers. They are both wicked. Therefore, the nation of Israel (which is largely agnostic or atheistic) will experience violence until they look upon him whom THEY have pierced.

    It is sad that so many have a blind allegiance to Israel as though the church is her servant.
     
  7. Refreshed

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    Aha, entrapment! [​IMG]
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

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    I agree, but it is in our best interest to defend her, or at least to not take arms against her, she is God's chosen nation.
     
  9. Daniel David

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    Curtis, what was she chosen for? According to Paul, her election and blessings were for the one seed through whom the peoples would be blessed, Christ.

    Now, she will one day have a restoration that will be like life from the dead. However, it will be "believing" Israel that is rewarded. Currently, Israel is our enemies according to the election of grace. Read Rom. 11.

    The Jewish people could be wiped out of the land of Israel and God will still bring a generation together that will embrace Christ. There is no saying that this current generation is the fulfillment of the restoration promise.
     
  10. Bro. Curtis

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    I agree, but the Bible spells out some pretty harsh prophecies concerning those who rise up against Israel, and in my opinion, if we rise up against her, we too will be cut down, and our blood will run deep.

    Do you feel the same about the RCC, or Hinduism ?
     
  11. Johnv

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    Isael as a country is not the same as the biblical nation of Israel. The largest population if Jews is in the US, not Israel, and they generally seem to be living peaceably and freely.
     
  12. Johnv

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    ...the Bible spells out some pretty harsh prophecies concerning those who rise up against Israel

    That's a really good point. As a matter of history, it seems interesting that the Jewish people are still around after countless attempts to wipe them from the face of the earth, often resulting in the fall of the forces that took up arms against them. If that doesn't demonstrate the protection of the Lord, I don't know what does.
     
  13. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Are you referring to the passage that says - those who bless you I will bless and those who curse you I will curse?

    Also, I don't understand your question about RCC or Hinduism. Let me know.
     
  14. LadyEagle

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    Kal-El, can you show us one verse where Jesus or Paul commanded Christians or the Early Church to turn their backs on Israel or the Jews? Weren't Paul and Jesus both Jews?
     
  15. LadyEagle

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    Before or after the Anti-Christ takes over & sets up headquarters at Jerusalem?
     
  16. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    SheEagle9/11,

    1. They don't. However, Paul did say that they are enemies according to the election of grace and that right now, they are cut off (as a nation). All peoples of the world need Jesus. In the church, there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Therefore, for the church to show unilateral support for any political entity can be a rascist thing to do. This does not have anything to do with the fact that political Israel will have a restoration in the future.

    2. Yes.
     
  17. Daniel David

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    It is part of the conditions in the Mosaic Law. If you read the latter parts of Deuteronomy, you will see that prosperity and peace (as a nation) was promised for those who obeyed God. If they were ever in captivity again, it would be because they have disobeyed God. Jews have been in captivity since Babylon. It has just taken different forms.
     
  18. LadyEagle

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    This is an interesting article.
    http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/CWN/110802iraq.asp
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    Galatians 3:17-18

    [16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    [17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    [18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    Genesis 12:1-3
    Now the LORD had said to Abram:

    "Get out of your country,
    From your family
    And from your father's house,
    To a land that I will show you.
    2 I will make you a great nation;
    I will bless you and make your name great;
    And you shall be a blessing.
    3 I will bless those who bless you,
    And I will curse him who curses you;
    And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

    The Lord will not forsake His people for His great name’s sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make Israel His people. (1 Samuel 12:22)

    http://www.blessisrael.com/

    http://www.fbcslidell.org/Ministries/SermonNotes/GodBlessAmerica/Israel/GodPromised.html
     
  20. Caretaker

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    Amen Sister SheEagle!!!

    It is amazing to me that so many Christions are opposed to Israel, and align themselves with Catholicism and Islamic terrorists, in their anti-zionist attitudes. For it is the restablishment of Israel, and the very temple mount upon which our glorious Lord will establish His millenial reign from the throne of David.

    There is a thought that the site of the temple could have been to one side of the Dome of the rock. Just a mad musing, but could the anti-christ possibly secure his false peace with both a Jewish temple and the Dome of the rock, on the same site?

    When Jesus returns the mount of Olives will split in two:
    Zech. 14:
    4
    And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    This massive destruction could purge all structures from the top of Mount Moriah, and ready the site for the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie. Just mere conjecture on my part, but my heart is so looking forward to the Day of my Lord's return.

    May God so bless His precious children.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     

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