Jesus kept the Law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, May 22, 2006.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus did not break the Sabbath or the letter of the Law.

    The Sabbath is part of the commandments and of those commandments Christ declares, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law."


    Jesus pointed to examples from the Old Testament, acts that were done on the Sabbath day by those who were in the God's service.

    "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are BLAMELESS?"

    Dont you SEE??? The very underlying foundation of the whole law is love God (first 4 commandments) and love your neighbor (last 6 commandments) LOVE is the very foundation of it.. so how could Jesus allow someone to die or be sick on Sabbath???


    They were BLIND and mistook the very object of the Sabbath, the very purpose of it.
    He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the GUILTLESS." Matt. 12:7.

    Then Jesus sees the man with the withered hand and its the Sabbath.
    Jesus asked, "It is LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill?"

    He saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other." Mark 3:4, 5.

    When asked, "Is it LAWFUL to heal on the Sabbath days?" Jesus answered, "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the Sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is LAWFUL to do well on the Sabbath days." Matt. 12:10-12.



    Jesus said, "I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 15:10. Jesus NEVER broke the law of the Sabbath.

    He could say unchallenged, "Which of you convicteth Me of sin?" John 8:46,


    THAT is the very reason why SO MANY of you are dead set against the commandments...the law... because YOU DONT UNDERSTAND IT!! You view it in a legalistic manner... instead of the way Jesus demonstrated it ought to be kept.

    Jesus didnt break the law... He couldnt be our sacrifice for sin if he had of.
     
  2. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    I reiterate, Jesus broke the Letter of the Law as practiced and more importantly enforced in His day.

    This is why I am against man made enforcement and interpretation of the Commandments because man will *always* get it wrong...

    Just as they did in Jesus' Day...

    But, they did have a whole lot of Tradition to go against...

    SMM
     
  3. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think if Jesus broke the Sabbath He wouldnt of said "Isnt it LAWFUL to pull your animal out of the ditch on Sabbath?"

    Wherefore it is LAWFUL to do well on the Sabbath days." Matt. 12:10-12.

    They were BLIND and mistook the very object of the Sabbath, the very purpose of it.
    He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the GUILTLESS." Matt. 12:7.


    Hello???

    "Blind" is the key
     
  4. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are missing the Point...

    Why?

    Because you are caught up in the same situation the Scribes, Pharisees, and Saducess were caught up in...

    You allow man-made traditions to color how you see the Law, Ordinaces and Commandments...

    Here you are vigorously defending Jesus' Right to set aside Centuries of Tradition yet you can't see where any of your own traditions might be blinding you even now...

    This is why I go to extremes in my defense of Grace vs Law.

    Because those that make the strongest defense of Law invariably enforce it on others according to their interpretations and traditions...

    Which is quite probably not how Jesus would see it...

    Your tradition sincerely believes that one can not keep God's Version of His Commandments written on Our Hearts unless we have a physical writtent letter by which to be judged **BY OTHERS**...

    I was raised in a Legalistic Pentecostal Sect and we had laws and interpretations of laws out the wazoo... Very few, if any, were actually God's Pure Commandments...

    SMM
     
  5. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have got to be kidding Mike
     
  6. Andre

    Andre
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe that Jesus did indeed break the "letter of the law" but I am inclinded to think that this is not really all that important a point. I understand what Claudia is saying with reference to Jesus' declaration that "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath", but I have to think he was not meaning "lawful" in the "letter of the law" sense.

    I think the important lesson from the Matt 12 passage is the inherent insufficiency of "law" to prescribe human behaviour. So even though the law says no work on the Sabbath, and since (in my view) pulling an animal out of a pit is indeed work, Jesus is teaching us that the created world is just too rich and complex to be subject to "codification" by law. I think Jesus is telling us that even God's "law" cannot be a guide in all situations.

    He (Jesus) is essentially pointing to himself as the basis for answering questions like "Can I pull my sheep out of the pit?". The nature of the world is such that prescriptive "behaviour" oriented laws (You shall not do "X") simply do not work. We need a different standard and that standard is the life and character of Jesus.
     
  7. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus said to the Pharisees that they had omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith. These were always part of the law. They didnt see that, however and stuck to the rigid letter of the law, plus added all sorts of their own restrictions to it.

    Mt:23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

    REMEMBER Jesus said " Matt. 12:7. If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice , ye would not have condemned the GUILTLESS." Jesus QUOTED FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY SHOULD OF BEEN DOING ON THE SABBATH!! The religious leaders already had these scriptures to go by!!! Hosea:6:6: For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice ; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.


    The life and character of Jesus?

    Jesus was the embodiment of the law, He kept the Law, He came to show us how to properly keep the law.

    Jesus kept saying when you have seen Me you have seen the Father.

    Love God and Love thy neighbor was ALWAYS the foundation of the Law. First 6 commandments love the Lord thy God and last 6 were love thy neighbor...

    Jesus merely reiterated from the old testament when He said a new commandment I give you...

    "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4,5.

    "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18.


    "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. " I John 2:3-7. The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:17.


    Yes of course Jesus is our example but even then we have different situations that are not specifically outlined in the Bible that we can go by.

    In the old testament times DAVID had the Holy Spirit and DAVID knew to eat the shewbread ... when normally the law didnt allow it. WHY? Because David understood the meaning of the Law.


    "Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked Jesus a question, saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:36-40 The reason that Jesus said, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" is because the first 4 commandments define love to God (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, etc.) and the last 6 define love to thy neighbor (Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal). This same idea is repeated by the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans:

    "...he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended (summarized) in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. " Romans 13:8,9: So you see then that love to God and neighbor is merely a SUMMARY of or is briefly comprehended in the Ten Commandment Law.

    [ May 22, 2006, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  8. wopik

    wopik
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    0
    The enormous importance of the Sabbath in first century Judaism is powerful corroboratory evidence that neither Jesus nor any of His apostles following, ever "did away" with Sabbath observance on the day God created for rest and worship.


    The few scriptures (primarily in Paul's writings) often quoted in an attempt to end the obligation of Christians to keep the Sabbath, pale by comparison with the overwhelming significance of the Sabbath.


    If the apostles had dared to eliminate the Sabbath, surely a gargantuan conflict would have exploded into the New Testament record.


    Compare the major controversy in the New Testament Church over circumcision (e.g., Acts 15), which was declared to be unnecessary or optional for Christians, with the relatively minor controversy over how a Christian should observe the Sabbath (in contradistinction to the "'customary" rigorous regulations of common Jewish law).


    http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
     
  9. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    So do you, little clau. Besides, if there is anything good about working to support one's family, then on the sabbath it would be 'doing good.' Or, if a family desparately needs more money for food, or to not be evicted, would you still oppose working sabbath for that extra money.
     
  10. Eric B

    Eric B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,806
    Likes Received:
    2
    The lack of such a controversy shows that it was not mandatory. Else, it would have been included right in Acts 15, which deals with other aspects of "the Law" (see v.5) they were to keep. Basically what Acts 15 reiterates are the universal laws of Noah.
    If the sabbath was mandatory, it was totally new to the Gentiles, and people would have been breaking it, not keeping it right, having many questions about it, like with everythign else; but this never arises. The Armstrong argument that "The Church had this one issue down pact" is unsubstantiated. Every other commandment had to be mentioned, as being issues.
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    You do err bringing Jesus's name into breaking of the Law for transgression of the Law is sin and therefore you are saying Jesus sinned. Shame on you.
     
  12. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    he only reason the other commandments were mentioned was usually because the bible writers were describing the lusts of the flesh.... adultery, etc,,


    was not worshipping idols mentioned?

    thats awful flimsy evidence saying it wasnt mentioned (which it was by the way in Hebrews but thats beside the point)

    Romans 13

    8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
    9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment , it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
     
  13. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    not to mention calling Jesus a liar when He said not one jot nor tittle (letter of the law) would be destroyed... do you not believe His words?
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    Jesus not only kept the law but fulfilled the law.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    Claudia do you know the difference?
     
  16. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. If you fulfill your marriage vows that means once you fulfill them you stop doing it>

    WRONG!!!

    Jesus didnt "fulfill" the Law in order to DESTROY the law... otherwise you have Jesus saying "I did not come to destroy the law but to destroy it..."

    a little silly dont you think?

    TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY not one jot or tittle will pass from the law is what he said.

    Last time I checked we are all still here? Or did heaven and earth pass away and someone forgot to inform me of that?

    by the way a jot and tittle means dotting of the i and crossing of the t in other words not one letter of the law would pass from the law... this means the 4th commandment as well! the Sabbath comandment.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    He perfectly fulfilled the Law to "Love God with all the heart" Deut 6:5

    He perfectly fulfilled the Law{/b] to "Love our Neighbor" Lev 19:18.

    Yes! Fulfilled the requirements of the Law as demanded in each one of us!

    And as we find in 1John 2 "We are to WALK as HE Walked" in obedience rather than rebellion against God.

    Those who "claim to Know Christ" (1John 2 says) and yet choose to WALK in some other path - than obedience - (those that choose rebellion) are not "on the level" says John.

    What say you to John's statement in 1John 2? Do you accept it?

    SHOULD we in fact choose to honor the Law of God and "Love God with all our heart" and "Love our neighbor"?? OR should we say "NAHHHHH Jesus fulfilled all that stuff! No need for me to give it a second thought"!

    Which view would be "in harmony" with 1John 2??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    If you had to "guess" which posts on this thread appear to "repeat" what John is saying here?

    Hint: So far I myself have only read ONE post on this thread - and that was the one from Revmitchell above --

    Now I will go back and read the others... hmmm "what will I find"??
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Jesus "perfectly ignored the Ten commandments"??

    Jesus "perfectly transgressed the Ten Commadments"?? And now "We are to go and do likewise"??

    Or do you mean that Jesus "perfectly OBEYED scripture while also IGNORING the man-made-traditions of the Jews"?

    Which is it??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you saying Jesus broke God's laws? If so, please give an example.
     

Share This Page

Loading...