Jesus Manifested on Earth

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dr. Bob, May 27, 2010.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    God the Son came to earth in human form -

    Stage 1 - secret impregnation of Mary by the holy Spirit; 9 months in womb with only a select few knowing this was the Son of God. Private.

    Stage 2 - limited manifestation in the sky to shepherds and magi and a couple of old folks in the Temple. Private, but a little wider circle.

    Stage 3 - at bar mitzvah in Temple with some Elders (while parents wandered the streets looking for him). Private, but the circle widens.

    Stage 4 - at baptism in Jordan and first disciples. Public, but very limited crowd and He didn't even cross the radar of most; they were looking at John and questioning him not Jesus.

    Stage 5 - at first miracles. Public, open to all although limited mostly to Galille and told followers NOT to talk about it

    Stage 6 - after crucifixion to disciples. Limited to 11, then to 500 tops before His ascension

    Stage 7 - rapture of Bride in the air. Private, for the elect only.

    Stage 8 - revelation in glory for kingdom and judgments. Public, for every eye to see.

    Stage 9 - final judgment and handing His mediatorial kingdom on earth to the Father as an eternal kingdom. Private, for elect of all ages (all else in lake of fire)

    Since Jesus was manifested privately (most often) and publically in differing stages, I have no problem with His second advent coming in a secret phase (rapture of the Bride) and public phase a couple years later (revelation in glory, armageddon, throne of David et al)

    Balcony is open for discussion
     
  2. Cutter

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    And after stating the obvious, which is common knowledge among Christians that read and study the Bible, your point is...
    I'm sure that God is pleased that you do not have a problem with His future plans.
     
  3. Zenas

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    You have not stated the obvious in Stage 7. I know the passages that you claim justify this interpretation but the best you can do is infer that there is some kind of secret second coming with a rapture of the saints, and when you infer you are going beyond what is actually taught. There will be a rapture, all right, but it will be during Christ's very public and only return. I'm not sure, however, who will be raptured--saints or sinners? Consider Matthew 13:40-43.
     
  4. Cutter

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    You must be confused and do not understand end time prophecy. Go back and study some more. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    You don't believe in a "rapture", but a "yo-yo". I've heard of that. So six stages of His FIRST advent and only ONE in the SECOND advent? Not in the Bible, my friend.

    Instead of simply reading I Thess 4 and Rev 4-19 for what it says (trump sounds, voice calls, Jesus in the AIR and we go up and meet Him and then from the joy of heaven we have the 7-year marriage supper of the Lamb) I know of some who think Jesus comes down half-way, we go up and then right back down (yo-yo is best illustration).

    THAT is not a "rapture". That also destroys all the pix of the Jewish marriage (which we are to have and do end up, somehow, BEFORE the judgment, in heaven - how'd we get there??)
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    UNDERSTANDING A JEWISH WEDDING

    1. The father of the bridegroom, often before the child was born, of his own free will would select a bride for his son.
    2. The prospective bridegroom then took the initiative and traveled from his father’s house that of the prospective bride.
    3. The fathers had already negotiated the price that must be paid to purchase the bride and show his love/responsibility.
    4. When this price was paid, the marriage covenant was thereby established. From this point, the man and woman were classified as “husband and wife”, even though no physical union had occurred.
    5. The groom and the bride then drank from a cup over which the betrothal benediction had been pronounced. This symbolized the covenant relationship established.
    6. With the marriage covenant in effect, the groom returned to his father’s house. He remained there for a period of at least 12 months separated from his bride.
    7. During this separation, the bride gathered her wardrobe and prepared for married life. The groom prepared a new room on his father’s house as their accommodation
    8. At the close of the separation and the time selected by the father, the groom and male escorts left his father’s house, usually at night, and led a torch-light procession to the bride’s house.
    9. The bride was expecting her groom, but did not know exactly the day/time he would come. His impending arrival came with a shout and blowing shofar.
    10. The bride and her escorts got their lamps and joined the procession back to the groom’s new home.
    11. The entire wedding party joined together for a feast that usually lasted 7 days or longer.
    12. During this time, the bride and groom entered the bridal chamber and join in physical union for the first time, consummating the marriage.

    Now how does the "yo-yo" fit into this? The pre-millennial rapture, of course, fits perfectly.
     
  7. saturneptune

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    This thread sort of touches another one, and I cannot get a clear, straight answer from the author of the thread. Who on earth today is the Bride? There is lots said about them in heaven, that "they rule the other saved" and that they "live inside the Holy City" and they are from the true "New Testement church of today." The thing is what is their identity today on earth, which group of Baptists, or which group of like faith and order?

    The definitions I have gotten of the "true and preserved" New Testement church is all over the map. In the other thread, one definition says reformed theology has no place in a NT church. Some say close or open has no room in a NT church. Others say Baptists that do not believe in missions or evangelism are not NT churches. So who is it? Which group gets the Bride award?
     
  8. Zenas

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    So would anyone care to address Matthew 13:40-43? Jesus expressly states that the harvest represents the end of the age and that the tares will be gathered by His angels first. Why does no one ever include this passage in their eschatological theories? Maybe it's because it doesn't fit with the system as they think the bible teaches. But how can you just discard it?
     
    #8 Zenas, May 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2010
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Blow off my detailed answer showing your failed eschatology with an unrelated question? Start another thread, but cowboy up and answer how a "yo-yo" is a pix of the wedding and how we get in heaven for the marriage supper (BEFORE the detailed description of the return of Christ) without a rapture
     
  10. RAdam

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    It makes sense if we read scripture.

    I'll take a simple reading of 1 Thess. 4 and I Cor. 15, thank you. We will be resurrected in glory and taken up into the air to meet Jesus. At this time Jesus judges and destroys this earth with fire, the elements burning with a fervent heat. He then makes a new heaven and earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. It was onto this new earth that John say the holy city, New Jerusalem, descend out of Heaven from God as a bride adorned for her husband. You can call it a "yo-yo" if you want to, I call it is scriptural teaching.
     
  11. HankD

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    OK I'll bite and play the "devil's advocate" :

    Between 9 and 10

    9. The bride was expecting her groom, but did not know exactly the day/time he would come.

    (in the meantime she is beaten and wounded).

    Song of Solomon 5:7 The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me.

    His impending arrival came with a shout and blowing shofar.

    9b. Taking care of business.

    10. The bride and her escorts got their lamps and joined the procession back to the groom’s new home.

    The groom has to take care of business (9b) with those who wounded His bride and He wants her to witness it:

    So He comes to earth retrieves (gathers) His bride in the air and proceeds down to takes care of business while she witnesses the retribution.

    Psalm 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

    Then 10 - Homeward bound.

    Ya, it’s a stretch but you asked.

    HankD
     
  12. Bro K

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    "Secret second coming"...Read I Thess 4:13 thru 5:2. 5:2 states "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night". This takes place at the end of the dispensation of Grace.

    Considering Mt 13:40-43. The key is in verse 41 "out of his (Christ) kingdom". His kingdom will be established on earth: this hasn't happened yet. The kingdom in verse 43 is the Father's kingdom.
     

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