Jesus Wept

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by salzer mtn, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    In the scripture we read that Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus. There are many people that have took this scripture and applied it to a belief that now Jesus is in heaven weeping and wringing his hands with a wrinkled brow over lost humanity or the destruction of the world. If one believes God is sovereign, it is impossible to believe, He that sets on the throne is the least bit effected by mankind. Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the sea, and all deep places.
     
    #1 salzer mtn, Jun 12, 2013
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  2. Revmitchell

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    I have never heard anyone say such a thing. Could it be your characterization of what others have said intended to demean what you do not like, rather than what people have actually said?

    It is not impossible. For instance Luke 15:7 says that when someone repents there is joy in heaven.

    Epehsians 4:30 says that we can grieve the Holy Ghost.

    So we can see that God is affected by mankind.

    Further we see where Jesus cried out "Father forgive them for they know not what they do!" Even after they said "Let His blood be on us and all our children!"

    The idea that somehow Jesus is less compassionate for His special creation (mankind) because He is sitting on the throne is completely wrongheaded as it fails to balance all the attributes of God and emphasizes one over all the others.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Jun 12, 2013
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  3. Aaron

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    I have, though not in those words. The man in the pulpit said, "Imagine Christ's sadness, His despair at the souls slipping into hell because the laborers are few."
     
  4. salzer mtn

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    God is perfect. He is perfect in knowledge and understanding. He knows all things, he decrees all things. He is Alpha and Omega. God would have been just as happy, just as contented if he had never made mankind, he is self sufficient . God is a Rock, unshakable by the decisions of mankind. He is not disappointed, or surprised.
     
  5. The Archangel

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    Jesus "weeping" at the tomb of Lazarus is very often misunderstood. In Greek, the nuance is not that of a weak, milquetoast, boo-hooing man. Rather, the Greek has the connotation of "Snorting." Jesus isn't "boo-hooing" at the tomb of Lazarus. Jesus is angry at the tomb of Lazarus. Death is not a natural part of life as God intended and instituted it. And, it would appear, that Jesus is angry at what has become of the world--"A world by sin destroyed and dead." (Basil Manly, JR. "Soldiers of Christ in Truth Arrayed")

    The Archangel
     
  6. Thousand Hills

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    Christ is both the Lion and the Lamb, he "humbled himself and became obedient to death on the cross" (Phillipians 2), and was the brave warrior who won the victory over sin and death removing its sting (1 Corinthians 15) IMO too many people today see him as a poor pitiful person, who we must "help" in some way.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    I would disagree with that part of the statement. But it is the height of extreme blindness to hold the position that God is not affected by His special creation rejecting Him.

    Both ideas:

    1. God is content without us

    2. God is saddened by His special creation rejecting Him.

    can and are true at the same time. And I have proven that with scripture.
     
  8. righteousdude2

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    My favorite verse....

    ....as a kid. When I'd go to Sunday School with friends and they'd go around the class and ask each kid to quote a verse, that was the verse I'd quote. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  9. saturneptune

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    You know, I appreciate this thread because the most thought I had ever given that verse is it is the shortest in the Bible. Thinking about it, as Jesus cried here on earth, fully human and God, it is a reasonable question to ask if He cries in heaven being in all His Glory and fully God. I would tend to think He does, but we do not know for sure if that changed when He shed his humanity.

    Not to derail the thread, but the other day I read an article that tried to explain why Matthew states that the Son does not know the day of the Second Coming. His explanation (vs the other Gospels that do not mention the Son) is that Christ here on earth did not know the date because of His humanity. Not sure I buy that, but it is interesting. In other words, when he returned to fully God, He did know the date.
     
  10. salzer mtn

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    There you have it, some peoples god is sad. A sad god is a defeated god, a sad god has no power, a sad god is not sovereign. My God is the same today, as he was yesterday and changeth not. Who can depend upon a god that emotions are controlled by man ? Who can worship a god that is not complete within himself ? Many men have a god of their own imagination that is no better than praying to a tree stump or a rock.
     
  11. TisMe

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    A God with no emotion is scary and would be like worshipping a tree stump or robot. The fact is, the bible is littered with emotion from God . Sometimes, he is angry, jealous and sometimes he is well pleased.
     
  12. Oldtimer

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    Wish we had a Like Button.

    Remember we were created in His image.

    It isn't about having or not having "emotions". It's all about how we use them to bring glory to His name.

    I can't imagine being in heaven without experiencing the JOY of finally being able to sit at His feet.
     
  13. salzer mtn

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    Job 35:5-8 Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds which are higher than thou. If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him ? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him ? If thou be righteous, what givest thou to him ? or what recieveth he of thy hand ? Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man (humans) Job 35:8, but it certainly cannot effect God, who is all blessed in himself. When you have done all those things that were commanded of you, say, We are unprofitable servants, Luke 17:10. Our obedience has profited God nothing. This is the true God in his essential being that the world knows nothing about.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    Which has to be completely ignored in order to come to the conclusion of the op. This is what hyper-Calvinism does to people.
     
  15. SovereignMercy

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    What is your definition of hyper-calvinism? Jesus wept once that we know of and He was weeping with those that weep as He has commanded us to do.

    Jesus certainly sympathizes with us, but He is never sad because He cannot do what He wants. He has always, is and will continue to build His church until the last sheep is brought in.

    Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

    Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
     
    #15 SovereignMercy, Aug 19, 2013
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  16. salzer mtn

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    Job 22:2-4 Can a man be profitable unto God, as he that is wise may be profitable unto himself ? Is it any pleasure to the Almighty, that thou art righteous ? or is it gain to him, that thou makest thy ways perfect ? Will he reprove thee for fear of thee ? will he enter with thee into judgment ? A man might declare the glory of God, but man cannot add to Gods glory.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    jesus wept, maybe because he was sincerely affected by Lazuras death, and also by the lack of faith of many of those near Him?
     
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    It seems you won't allow God to be God. You insist on setting above His creation with no care nor concern for His children. I think you fail to understand the whole character of God the Father, the Almighty.
     
  19. salzer mtn

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    1 Cor 8:4-7 There is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many) But to us there be but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge.
     
  20. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Not relevant to your point. I don't argue this verse, but it has nothing to do with what you've been saying. So ...

    ***see previous post***
     

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