Job 40:15

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, May 17, 2015.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Hippo, elephant or dinosaur? Zondervan NIV footnote does not say dinosaur, and my ESV Crossway SB says the same. The MacArthur study Bible offered a suggestion the text could mean dinosaur, but Mac was not dogmatic about the interpretation. So what say you?
     
  2. InTheLight

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    You present a false choice. It doesn't necessarily need to be one of those three animals you listed. That said, it's not a dinosaur. It could be a hippo or an elephant, but doesn't need to be. It could be some other large creature that is now extinct.
     
  3. evangelist6589

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    Such as what? A giant rabbit?
     
  4. InTheLight

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    That's totally uncalled for. I answered your question honestly and without malice. Why are you like this?
     
  5. JonC

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    God predestined him to be like that.
     
  6. evangelist6589

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    What could the beast have been? A giant rabbit is one choice. A giant cockroach? Or what? Sorry I did not intend to offend.
     
  7. Sapper Woody

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    I think it's obviously a dinosaur. What other creature on earth has a powerful tail that he "moveth like a cedar"?



    v.15 - He's an herbivore.

    v.16 - He has a strong lower body, with core strength.

    v.17 - He has a powerful tail; he has scales.

    v.18, 19 - He's hard to kill.

    v.23 - He is a large creature that required large amounts of water.

    v.24 - He had either a horn on his nose, or a nose hard enough to pierce through snares.



    Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
     
  8. InTheLight

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    I can totally relate to that since God predestined me to be a non-Cal.
     
  9. evangelist6589

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    I did not see all this so no way it could be a giant rabbit, a giant insect, or a hippo.
     
  10. PreachTony

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    I think a lot depends on when we believe Job took place. Is it a story from very shortly after the Flood? Is it an antediluvian story? Those questions alone will frame much of the discussion, as an antediluvian story could mean anything, as so much was lost in the Flood. I've read authors state that it took place prior to the Flood, but I cannot currently remember where I read that. I know that Eliphaz references a flood, but was this truly the great flood, or a local flood?

    If it happens after the flood, then, when exactly? As a point of reference (but by no means endorsing this particular site's views): http://amazingbibletimeline.com/bible_questions/job-bible-timeline/
     
  11. Sapper Woody

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    I've heard of people who thought Job was during the time of Moses, but never anyone thinking he was a friend of Moses. It's not out of the realm of possibility.



    My own conclusion is early post flood. Possibly around the tower of Babel. Some would call this circular reasoning, but since I believe a dinosaur is being written about (not just there, but in another chapter as well), it would stand to reason that it was early post flood. Noah would have had dinosaurs on the ark. Meaning that some lived post flood.



    On a related note, it is my opinion that the new atmosphere post-deluge could not sustain such large reptilians. And so those who did not adapt went extinct. I'm no herpetologist, but zoology is a hobby of mine. Reptiles grow until they die. It stands to reason that if man used to live thousands of years, animal lives were longer as well, meaning bigger reptiles.



    Behemoth could even be a proper noun. There's a lot of possibilities. But my money's on it's what today would be called a dinosaur.
     
  12. revmwc

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    I ask a very detailed artist to draw what was described here once. He drew a picture of a Dinosaur.

    The Leviathan he drew the picture of a winged almost dragon looking sea creature, a dinosaur of sorts only winged that breathed fire.
     
  13. Sapper Woody

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    The leviathan has always interested me. Especially in light of that fact that the KJV uses the word "dragon" a few times. But, if we look at the leviathan in Job 41, we see:

    v1, 2, 7 - It appears he is a sea creature, but one that is too mighty to be caught by rod and reel.

    v3-6, 8-13 - He's obviously not a force to be trifled with.

    v14 - He is not an animal that has been domesticated.

    v15-17, 23 - He has scales. (Fish or reptile).

    v18-21, 31-32 - Occam's razor says that he breaths fire. There are a host of different explanations, however. I say go with the simplest. He breathes fire.

    v25-29 - After the breathing fire verses, its hard to not think of a western dragon when reading these verses.

    v30 - He has sharp claws.

    So, this one seems to be cut and dried as well, but I'll admit that I already have a preconceived idea of what it is, and it's hard to not read that preconception into the passage.

    Here is a documentary that I found fascinating, and it explains how dragons could have breathed fire.

    http://documentaryaddict.com/dragons+world+a+fantasy+made+real-12492-doc.html
     
  14. evangelist6589

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    Sounds logical does it not?
     
  15. revmwc

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    I heard that Job was a contemporary of Abraham not Moses.
     
  16. Sapper Woody

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    I have heard people say that, as well. It's possible. As far as I know, no one has any solid proof of when Job lived, and it's all speculation. It's pretty safe to say that it was sometime between the flood and the exodus. Outside of that, we just don't know.
     
  17. robustheologian

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    There are some interpretation that tail could actually mean trunk...like an elephant's trunk.
     
  18. Sapper Woody

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    I've never heard a convincing argument for that. I mean tail and trunk are hard to get backwards.
     
  19. robustheologian

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    Have you checked out Matthew Poole's commentary on that?
     
  20. Sapper Woody

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    Yes, I have. And, honestly, it makes no sense. He gives two possible reasons it could still be referring to an elephant.



    First, he says the tail of an elephant is rigid when erect. Show me how it's even close to a cedar.



    Second, he says it could be referring to the trunk. Why would they refer to the trunk as the tail, and then refer to it as the nose later in the chapter?



    Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would disagree that it's some kind of dinosaur. It's plain as day, and there's no reason to deny it outside of trying to say man never coexisted with dinosaurs.
     

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