Joel Osteen saves lots of souls!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    While we were doing the review today of the prophecy book and we got to the Olivet Discourse we came to this passage. (In class I read from the KJV as to not create an offense in the church).

    Mt 24:4-5 (NIV)
    4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

    I explained that this passage has not been fulfilled yet, but there are many these days that are ripping the world for the day this passage will be fulfilled as what will be called The Great Apostasy (KJV). I mentioned some names, and when I came to Osteen I got a instant challenge by one man whom says that Osteen saves souls and is preaching the true Biblical message. I had previously said that Osteen is a far better false teacher (to Satan) than those in the OneNess Pentecostal, Unification, and Universalist cults as he deceives far more souls. I challenged the man in return on if Osteen ever preached on sin, repentance, hell, judgment, Jesus being the only way to salvation (Jn 14:6), etc.. But the man did not answer but instead said that because he used the Bible he was a Godly gift.

    After the class a woman spoke with me for about 20 minutes and completely agreed about Osteen and his false teachings. She then went and spoke with the pastors wife about it all, and the false teachings of Osteen. Its a shame the pastor in the church is not as dogmatic as he should be on these things, but boy what an experience! I see that HH has released a new book on Osteen, however not sure if its worth it, as Strange Fire by John MacArthur would be better I bet.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Apr 13, 2014
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  2. salzer mtn

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    Be carful, if the pastor see's you as a threat to his position he will start preaching on things you believe in, the IFB don't.
     
    #2 salzer mtn, Apr 13, 2014
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  3. exscentric

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    Second the be careful. The verse speaks of false messiah's not people you disagree with. And since when does any man save anyone? Just nit picin :)

    Maybe someone like Sun Myong Moon and his type.
     
  4. JonC

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    I was wondering how your class went. BTW, who authored the new book on Osteen?
     
  5. OldRegular

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    It is not nit picin! Man can't even save himself much less anyone else. Much of the Bible preaches against false gods and heresies yet most preachers of today are afraid to condemn such teaching. The result is that TV heretics are enriching themselves through contributions from gullible people.
     
  6. plain_n_simple

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    So was the person saying Osteen saves or that many get saved by Jesus while attending Osteen?
     
  7. evangelist6589

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    Hank Hanagraaf. Is it worth it? Perhaps not as I have Strange Fire and Who are you to Judge by Lutzer whom spells out a generic def of a false teacher.
     
  8. SolaSaint

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    People in Baptists churches defend Osteen all the time. It goes to show how shallow many Baptists are today. I see it in my church.
     
  9. kyredneck

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    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

    Well, you taught them wrong. The fact is false prophets and messiahs caused great destruction to the people of 1st century Palestine.

    "...Gill:

    There were others also besides these, that set up for deliverers, who called themselves by the name of the Messiah. Among these, we may reckon Simon Magus, who gave out that he was some great one; yea, expressly, that he was the word of God, and the Son of God (e), which were known names of the Messiah; and Dositheus the Samaritan, asserted himself to be Christ (f); and also Menander affirmed, that no man could be saved, unless he was baptized in his name (g); these are instances before the destruction of Jerusalem, and confirm the prophecy here delivered.

    "... from the death of Herod the Great.. to the destruction of the Temple, the Jewish History is filled with the names of false Christs and false prophets who deceived both the Jews and Samaratins. None appeared before this period, and not more than one for five or six centuries after it." (Kett, 3rd Edit. vol I, o. 168)

    Thomas Newton
    For very soon after our Saviour's decease appeared Simon Magus, Acts viii. 9, 10,-- ' and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying This man is the great power of God! He boasted himself likewise among the Jews, as the Son of God. Of the same stamp and character was also Dositheus the Samaritan, who pretended that he was the Christ foretold by Moses...."
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1534721#post1534721

    "...Another class of trouble makers were certain men who, though not thieves or murderers, yet laid waste the happy state of the city no less than did those murderers. These were such men as deceived and deluded the people under pretence of Divine inspiration. It is easy to recognize in these men the false prophets whereof the Lord warned His disciples. Continuing, Josephus says' These prevailed with the multitude to act like madmen and went before them into the wilderness, pretending that God would there show them the signals of liberty (II 13:4).

    There was also an Egyptian false prophet, who got together thirty thousand men that were deluded by him. These he led about from the wilderness to the mount which is called the mount of Olives. This, according to Josephus, was in the days when Felix was governor. Consequently it was at the time of Paul's last visit to Jerusalem, which calls to mind that the chief captain before whom Paul was taken after the disturbance in the Temple, supposed that he was that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers (#Ac 21:38). It also brings to mind the definite warning of Christ, Wherefore, if they shall say to you, Behold, He is in the desert, go not forth (#Mt 24:26).

    Josephus likens the social conditions at that time to those of a body which is thoroughly diseased, in that when trouble subsided in one place it broke out immediately in another. For, says he, a company of deceivers and robbers got together, and persuaded the Jews to revolt, and exhorted them to assert their liberty (id. 6)...."
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1510882#post1510882
     
    #9 kyredneck, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2014
  10. kyredneck

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    :thumbsup: .....zactly... :)
     
  11. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Nice of you to highlight this for me so I didn't have to. The word translated "generation" is poorly done. It is genea, and though it seems, by it's appearance, to be accurately translated, it means literally, "fathered, birth, nativitiy." It is "that which has been begotten by men." That, my dear KRN, is a nation, or a people, and that is Israel. There ya go. Tear it apart. Won't mean anything, but have at it.
     
  12. kyredneck

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    No, the only thing poorly done here is your exegesis (which actually is not your exegesis but someone else's which you are parroting).

    If by 'tear it apart' you mean to refute such a lame attempt to explain away the obvious in order to force another meaning into the text, that's easy to do from the simple hermeneutic of comparing scripture with scripture, and allowing it to interpret itself. Easy peasy. Genea is EXACTLY as it appears, it means the age of people then living, the generation contemporary with Christ, that particular generation of Christ's day which was specifically singled out and foretold of by Moses some 1400 years earlier:

    21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are come upon them, that this song shall testify before them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they frame this day, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
    22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.
    29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Dt 31
    5 They have dealt corruptly with him, they are not his children, it is their blemish; They are a perverse and crooked generation.
    20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very perverse generation, Children in whom is no faithfulness.
    21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; They have provoked me to anger with their vanities: And I will move them to jealousy with those that are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Dt 32

    Genea of The Olivet Discourse is the very same generation spoken of in all the other NT references, there is no break in the continuity:

    33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
    34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
    35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

    8 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.
    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
    40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
    41 The men of Nineveh shall stand up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, a greater than Jonah is here.
    42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
    43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
    44 Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
    45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation. Mt 12

    1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and trying him asked him to show them a sign from heaven.
    2 But he answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the heaven is red.
    3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to-day: for the heaven is red and lowering. Ye know how to discern the face of the heaven; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times.
    4 An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of Jonah. And he left them, and departed. Mt 16

    24 for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.
    25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Lu 17

    22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
    23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
    24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

    16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows
    17 and say, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.
    18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon.
    19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! And wisdom is justified by her works. Mt 11

    40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

    And Josephus certainly had nothing good to say of 'that generation':

    “It is therefore impossible to go distinctly over every instance of these men's iniquity. I shall therefore speak my mind here at once briefly: - That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world.....” Book 5, ch 10, sec. 5

    “.. I suppose, that had the Romans made any longer delay in coming against these villains, that the city would either have been swallowed up by the ground opening upon them, or been overflowed by water, or else been destroyed by such thunder as the country of Sodom (20) perished by, for it had brought forth a generation of men much more atheistical than were those that suffered such punishments; for by their madness it was that all the people came to be destroyed....” Book 5, ch. 13, sec. 6

    “....and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers, while those that a little before had worn the sacred garments, and had presided over the public worship; and had been esteemed venerable by those that dwelt on the whole habitable earth when they came into our city, were cast out naked, and seen to be the food of dogs and wild beasts. And I cannot but imagine that virtue itself groaned at these men's case, and lamented that she was here so terribly conquered by wickedness.....” Book 4, ch. 5, sec. 2.

    To refuse to accept the plain NT meaning of genea is to have a Grand Canyon sized void in your theology.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Apr 15, 2014
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  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Well, that's enough to get me to ignore the rest of your characterless post. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

    There seem to be a lot of 'ignore' bugs biting today. Hm ...
     
  14. kyredneck

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    Lol, so,refuting your lame attempt to force the meaning of the text makes the post 'characterless'? I probably won't sleep over eight hours tonight worrying about it....
     

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