John 3:16 ...whosoever...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Deacon

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    Carried over from the book forum.

    In John 3:16 is the word "whosoever" in the original Greek?
     
  2. kyredneck

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    16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. Jn 3 YLT
     
  3. Jerome

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    Amen.

    Romans 10:13 YLT
    for every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.


    "when the Lord says "Whosoever," I cannot get out of that circle. It is a big net that seems to entangle all men in its meshes. "Whosoever." If I call upon the name of the Lord, if you call upon the name of the Lord, if the man who lies upstairs a-dying calls upon the name of the Lord, we shall be saved. What a wide word that "whosoever" is!" —Charles Spurgeon, "The Whole Machinery of Salvation"
     
  4. Greektim

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  5. preachinjesus

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    Depends on your translation.

    "Whosoever" isn't a word that would have appeared in Greek. Its not the way Greek functions. So let's look at the optimal phrase:

    ἲνα πᾶς ὁ πιστέυων εἰς αὐτον μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἕχῃ αίωνιον

    Specifically here the clause indicates it is speaking of those who choose to follow Christ. The "whosoever" while not a single word, is, rather, part of a larger frame of reference that means (as the HCSB translates it) "so that everyone who believes in Him."

    This is an ideal rendering. The KJV's "whosoever" reflects the language in the 1800s when it was last updated. It isn't ideal. However, it should be noted that almost all the major translations today use some kind of rendering indicating "whoever" or "everyone." This is the optimal understanding.

    Now, the more controversial issue...did Jesus say this or is John writing a commentary on what had just finished saying? ;)
     
  6. kyredneck

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    14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up,
    15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
    16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. Jn 3 YLT

    4 For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing, Ro 10 YLT

    46 I a light to the world have come, that every one who is believing in me -- in the darkness may not remain; Jn 12 YLT

    38 `Let it therefore be known to you, men, brethren, that through this one to you is the forgiveness of sins declared,
    39 and from all things from which ye were not able in the law of Moses to be declared righteous, in this one every one who is believing is declared righteous; Acts 13 YLT

    16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek. Ro 1 YLT

    33 according as it hath been written, `Lo, I place in Sion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence; and every one who is believing thereon shall not be ashamed.` Ro 9 YLT

    1 Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him: 1 Jn 5 YLT
     
  7. Greektim

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    Most people here didn't even know that was an issue.

    The words are in red aren't they!!!

    :D
     
  8. Baptist Believer

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    The Apostle John used red ink with his quill for that section.

    He used a finer tip quill and wrote much smaller for all of the footnotes and dispensation charts.
     
  9. beameup

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    "If it was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me"
     
  10. Van

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    I think your question is what are the Greek words that have been translated as "whosoever."

    Here is the operative phrase (transliterated) "hina pas ho pisteuon." Hina introduces a purpose clause, i.e. could be rendered "so that." The "ho pisteuon" can be rendered "the one believing." And of course "pas" means all or every. Putting it together, so that every one believing.

    Perhaps someone knows how the "who" (found in nearly every translation I looked at) found its way into the text.

    Wycliff (1385) has it "that each that believeth."

    The actual idea is not a reference to everyone who chooses to believe in Christ, but every one believing into Christ, referring to the action of God placing a person spiritually in Christ based on crediting the person's faith as righteousness.
     
    #10 Van, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2015
  11. franklinmonroe

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    Correct. Another way of literally translating it would be "consequently each believing-one" (which is clearly not smooth English).
     
  12. Van

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    Yes, translators must balance the need to express what is said in understandable English, and the need to accurately present what literally is being said. At some point, the style of the English hinders grasping the idea, while at the other end stylish English betrays accuracy. But, I believe because of the providence of God, a translation is possible which accurately presents the idea in understandable style.
     
  13. wpe3bql

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    Here's how Kenneth S. Wuest's The New Testament: An Expanded Translation [(c) 1961, Eerdmans.] reads John 3:16: "For in such a manner did God love the world, insomuch that His Son, the uniquely-begotten One, He gave, in order that everyone who places his trust in Him may not perish but may be having life eternal." (p. 215; emphasis mine.)
     
  14. Van

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    The problem with the "expanded translation" is that adds to scripture on purpose. Why not translate what is said, and then provide study notes as to what you think it means? Burying the commentary in the text is as unwise as it is unsound.

    How about, "God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son, so that every one believing into Him would not perish but have eternal life?"
     
  15. Rippon

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    The problem with your rendering is that you are giving an expanded translation. In fact it is pure commentary. Why not just translate what is said? Burying your own Vanesque twist in the text is as unwise as it is unsound.

    "Sacrificially loved fallen mankind" is a huge departure from the original.
     
    #15 Rippon, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2015
  16. Yeshua1

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    Either way, the gist remains the same, as the Holy Spirit inspired what was recorded down for us!
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    That though would mean that God intended Jesus death to benefit all sinners though, doesn't it?
     
  18. Greektim

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    Expanded translations are not pure commentary. This is the mistake with the idea of a literal translation. These expanded translations in fact are simply adding in the syntactical features that are not usually conveyed in other translations b/c they don't read as smoothly. For example, a present participle will have an emphasis of ongoing action. An expanded translation will try to bring that out where as a normal one will just render the action.

    Here is an example of a literal translation of Hebrews 3:1-6
    Here is my expanded translation emphasizing literary and syntactical features
     
  19. preachinjesus

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    When discussing how a particular passage renders, or doesn't render, certain words in translation...expanded or amplified version are generally not helpful.

    Let's work with the original languages and the intent of the author, as left on the page, first.
     
  20. Van

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    John 3:16 transliterated and arranged according to English sematics except
    will not perish was disarranged to display the Greek source word.

    Gar Theos Egapesen Kosmon Houtos
    For God sacrificially loved fallen mankind in this way,

    Edoken Autou Monogenes Huion Hina Pas Pisteuon
    He gave His one of a kind Son so that every one believing

    Eis Auton Me Apoletai All Eche Aionion Zoen.
    Into Him not will perish but will be having eternal life.
     

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