John Calvin did not press the five points of Calvinism!

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Apr 9, 2014.

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  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Listening a series on the history of Calvin and Reformed theology on http://renewingyourmind.org PODCAST. I learned a interesting fact and that is that John Calvin himself did not invent nor press the 5-Point Calvinism system that so many like to broadcast these days. I also find it interesting that he did not hate Arminian as so many do these days. Granted I believe Calvinism is the more Biblical system, but I have no agenda nor do I take sides and this means I will try to be as fair to Arminian as I am to Calvinists. So many hardline Calvinists have an agenda and some bash me on FB because I am not as hard of a Calvinist as them and also I do not claim Armianism to be another gospel. I know plenty of moderate Calvinists that are good men and preach the word with care. Dr. Erwin Lutzer, Dr. David Jeremiah, Randy Alcorn to name a few. These men are not Reformed nor are they hardline Calvinists but are moderate and certainly men that have been bashed and not endorsed by hardline Calvinists.

    My point of this thread is for Calvinists to listen to this series on John Calvin and capture his spirit and stop being so divisive. Yes I expect someone to tell me that I am wrong and that John Calvin pressed the 5 point system hard and told Arminian they have another gospel. I expect this, but why would I listen to you over Robert Godfrey? Also if you make that argument I will tell you you need to start drinking with John Calvin!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_alcohol
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Apr 9, 2014
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  2. Revmitchell

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    Those would be the hyper-cals. They just cannot help themselves and folks like you who do not fall in line with them must be destroyed.
     
  3. robt.k.fall

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    How could he?

    Calvin died in 1564 and the Synod of Dort which formulated the Canons of Dort didn't meet until 1618-1619.
     
  4. JonC

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    I doubt John Calvin had any feelings (love or hate) against Arminians. If he lived to see Arminianism and the Calvinistic answer, I think that he may (perhaps) stand opposed to some elements of post-Beza Calvinism (based on his commentaries) or at least he would have to reevaluate some of his conclusions. It has been argued that Calvin wasn’t a Calvinist (although I doubt that a persuasive argument) but it's probably fair to say he was moderate in terms of the Atonement (and I suppose hyper in terms of covenantal aspects).
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Lol...hey John....."you MUST BE DISTROYED! :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  6. Rippon

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    That is news for you?!
    Kind of hard to hate those who didn't exist at the time. He didn't hate the Wesleyans, that's for sure! ;-)

    Dr. Godfrey is a fine historian. I heard him once in person years ago. His book 'John Calvin: Pilgrim and Pastor' is a wonderful intro to the man of Geneva.

    I don't think you have absorbed that much of what Dr. Godfrey explains about Calvin.
     
  7. Rippon

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    Really? Hmm...
     
  8. evangelist6589

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    Unlike you Rippon I am not the expert on this matter. But yes thats why I like Renewing your Mind is that they dive into the academic or at least deeper than what one would hear in most pulpits. I have the book on George Whitefield by Steve Lawson and have not yet opened it. Looks like a good read.
     
  9. evangelist6589

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  10. evangelist6589

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    I am rusty on my history indeed. Took some history courses in seminary but I forgot most of the information despite my grades. This goes to show why memorizing dates and names for tests may not be the best way to retain information after the class. BJU loved to give multiple choice scantron exams, while most seminaries are more essay based.
     
  11. evangelist6589

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    You know in the latest Hobbit movie that came out there is a scene with a skin changer Beorn whom says that he does not like Dwarfs and gives his reasons, but he goes on to help the dwarfs because he hates Orks even more. The same can be said of you Mitchell. I do not like your Armianism that you show in your every post, however I dislike Hyper-Calvinist even more so than Arminian.
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    This goes to show how rusty I am on history.
     
  13. Rippon

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    Why? Both systems are equadistant from true Calvinism.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I don't believe he would know a hyper Calvinist if one bit him on the parse.:laugh:
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Now I am curious....what is a true Calvinist?
     
  16. Rippon

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    Something right in the mid-point between Arminianism on the left and hyper-Calvinism on the right. Surely you knew that already.

    The major doctrines are summed up in the London Confession of 1689 and the Westminster Confession of Faith. Your heroes George Whitefield and Dr. D.M-L-J exemplified the doctrines and applications of Calvinism.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Yes and both were Paedo baptistic....so they are not perfect. You seem to be drawing conclusions that confessional Christianity is far better than non confessional Baptist, scripture only beliefs. Isthat true?
     
  18. Rippon

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    What are you talking about?! The London Confession of 1689 is credo-Baptistic! And certainly both of the documents are not perfect --nobody has ever made that wild assertion. Both are subordinate to the Scriptures --they merely summarize as comprehensively as possible a number of doctrinal planks.
    So-called 'non-confessional' Baptists don't commit to any documents. However, their creed is no creed! Believe me they have their set beliefs even if they don't put them in written form. Yet it would be a perfectly good thing to set down in print what a local body stands for --what an assembly of believers claim the Scripture teaches on a variety of subjects.
     
  19. evangelist6589

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    Get Paul Washer's latest book? He has much to teach you.
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Your suggestion of resembling Arminism is troubling to me. JamesL recently stated that Calvinists are in fact Arminians in disguise and I believe Steaver has also mentioned it. I am sure we can repeat these conversations but if both are correct, then I want nothing to do with Calvinism.
     
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