John the Baptist

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by StefanM, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. StefanM

    StefanM
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    I have no axe to grind here; I'm just looking for an explanation.

    Luk 1:13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
    Luk 1:14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth,
    Luk 1:15 for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
    (ESV)

    I would like to see non-Calvinists explain this event. How could John be filled with Holy Spirit from birth if salvation involves any kind of choice? Is this case the exception to the rule?

    Any and all explanations are welcome.
     
  2. Wes Outwest

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    John the Baptist, was prophesied in the old testament to be the forerunner of the Christ! Therefore John the Baptist is an ELECT of GOD the same as the Apostles. He was a KEY player in God's Plan of Salvation for mankind from the foundation of the world. He was not however, divine as God the son is divine.
     
  3. here now

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    Wes,
    Could John the Baptist have refused the election?
     
  4. Wes Outwest

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    And miss the ONCE in ETERNITY HONOR of being the forerunner of the LONG AWAITED MESSIAH?

    Really!
     
  5. johnp.

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    Wes,
    Could John the Baptist have refused the election?

    That looks like you are saying he could Wes. Yes or no will do I think.

    john.
     
  6. Wes Outwest

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    You have your answer!
     
  7. here now

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    Where?

    Seriously, could he have refused?
     
  8. Wes Outwest

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    You claim you are an elect, Could you?
     
  9. here now

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    Wes,
    Why are you skirting the question?
    Is it that you don't have an answer?
     
  10. dianetavegia

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    NO. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit before his birth and was created as the forerunner and fullfilled prophecy. He could not have refused to do what was chosen for him to do anymore than Judas could have refused to do what he was chosen to do.

    YES. I could have refused the wooing of the Holy Spirit because MY God created me with a heart and mind capable of yielding to the Holy Spirit or following the world and lies of Satan.

     
  11. PastorGreg

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    Your first answer sounds a bit Calvinistic, Diane, better be careful. [​IMG]

    Serious question regarding your second answer. Why did God create you with choice, but not John and Judas. How do we know who has choice and who doesn't?
     
  12. rc

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    Please you guys! I can here Wes' desperation crys from here!

    He was forknown, predestined, and called Wes... come on... you can say it... IF you let scripture interpret scripture for a change that is...
    Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I APOINTED you a prophet to the nations.

    Could Jeremiah decide not to be a prophet?

    you are stronger than I, and you have prevailed...
    Jeremiah 20:9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.
     
  13. here now

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    Diane,
    How do you know that you could have refused the wooing of the Holy Spirit?
     
  14. here now

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    Wes,
    I'm anxiously waiting.
     
  15. rc

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    Diane,
    Give me a verse where it says the H.S. "Woos"... I can't find it in my greek.
     
  16. here now

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    RC,
    I think that wooing of the Holy Spirit is an Arminian term. Must only be found in the Arminian Bible.

    Just kidding Diane.
     
  17. dianetavegia

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    Now rc, y'all are from mn and don't speak my same greek.... This is SOUTHERN greek.

    John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Woo:
    To seek the affection of.

    To seek to achieve; try to gain.
    To tempt or invite.
    To entreat, solicit, or importune.

    To persue; go in search of or hunt for

    If you call me an Arminian, I'll call you a Calvinite. I'm neither, thank you.
     
  18. rc

    rc
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    Then you are misusing the word draw Diane. You can't change the meaning to fit your view, you must change your view to fit the meaning.

    To draw means to DRAW.... not to woo, entreat, or invite, seek to achieve....

    THe same greek word is used as the fisherman DRAWING the fish into the boats with their nets.

    It means to DRAG.

    They didn't invite the fish in the boats, they didn't entreat the fish or persue the fish into the boat...

    The meaning by the father is He will DRAG men to himself like a fisherman drags the fish in the net into the boat.
     
  19. dianetavegia

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    And you, sir, are picking ONE meaning out of many to fit YOUR definition.

    draw (drô)

    v., drew (drū), drawn (drôn), draw·ing, draws.

    v.tr.

    To cause to move after or toward one by applying continuous force; drag: drew the chair closer to the table; a team of horses drawing a wagon. See synonyms at pull.
    To cause to move in a given direction or to a given position, as by leading: The teacher drew the children into the room to see the decorations.
    To move or pull so as to cover or uncover something: draw the curtains.
    To cause to flow forth: a pump drawing water; a blow that drew blood.
    To suck or take in (air, for example); inhale.
    To require (a specified depth of water) for floating: a boat drawing 18 inches.
    To take or pull out: drew a gun from beneath the counter; drew out a fat wallet.

    To extract or take for one's own use: draw strength from one's friends.
    To make (tea) by steeping.
    To eviscerate; disembowel.

    To cause to come by attracting; attract: afraid the casino will draw undesirable elements to the town.
    To select or take in from a given group, type, or region: draw clients from all levels of society.
    To bring to a certain condition or action; lead: drawn to despair; drew them to resign.
    To bring about deliberately; provoke: draw enemy fire; draw a penalty on an opponent.
    To evoke as a response; elicit: a performance that drew jeers from the audience.
    To earn; gain: deposits that draw interest at a rate of 5 percent.

    To withdraw (money).
    To use (a check, for example) when paying.
    To receive on a regular basis or at a specified time: draw a pension.
    To take or receive by chance: draw lots.
    Games.
    To take (cards) from a dealer or central stack.
    To force (a card) to be played.
    To end or leave (a contest) tied or undecided.
    Sports.
    To hit or strike (a billiard ball, for example) so as to give it backspin.
    To hit (a golf ball) with a draw.
    To pull back the string of (a bow).
    To distort the shape of.
    To stretch taut.

    To flatten, stretch, or mold (metal) by hammering or die stamping.
    To shape or elongate (a wire, for example) by pulling through dies.

    To inscribe (a line or lines) with a pencil or other marking implement.
    To make a likeness of on a surface, using mostly lines; depict with lines: drew a map of the area; drawing landscapes and still lifes.
    To portray in writing or speech; depict with words: draws moving scenes of ghetto life.
    To formulate or devise from evidence or data at hand: draw a comparison.
    To compose or write out in legal format: draw a deed.

    v.intr.
    To proceed or move steadily: a ship drawing near the shore.
    To attract customers or spectators:
     
  20. dianetavegia

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    So the disciples were robots who dragged other robots to the free gift of Salvation/ adoption?

    YOUR MEANING? I have the Holy Spirit within me and have no need of other help in discernment. Thanks anyhow, but I think Calvinists are pitiful (inspiring or deserving pity) and I mean that in a nice sort of way. How very sad it must be to believe God chose to damn people before their first offense, even before they were conceived.

    My God is an AWESOME God and I love HIM because HE first loved me. [​IMG]
     

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