Jonah 2:9

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by rlvaughn, Nov 28, 2001.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...Salvation is of the Lord. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The truth of Jonah's observation illustrated in the deliverance of the Ninevites:

    1. The Lord originated the plan (neither Jonah nor the Ninevites were involved in planning for their deliverance).
    2. The Lord initiated the plan (neither Jonah nor the Ninevites were interested in their fate).
    3. The Lord controlled the circumstances (despite Jonah's attempt to circumvent God's plan).
    4. The Lord gave Jonah the message (and Jonah's planned disobedience did not change it).
    5. The Lord produced the results (Jonah preached impending destruction, but not how to avoid it).
     
  2. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:


    The truth of Jonah's observation illustrated in the deliverance of the Ninevites:

    1. The Lord originated the plan (neither Jonah nor the Ninevites were involved in planning for their deliverance).
    2. The Lord initiated the plan (neither Jonah nor the Ninevites were interested in their fate).
    3. The Lord controlled the circumstances (despite Jonah's attempt to circumvent God's plan).
    4. The Lord gave Jonah the message (and Jonah's planned disobedience did not change it).
    5. The Lord produced the results (Jonah preached impending destruction, but not how to avoid it).
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thank you [​IMG]
     
  3. rlvaughn

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    Three More Thoughts from Jonah
    1. We must preach the preaching God bids us (1:2; 3:2). God did not change His mind and give Jonah a different message the second time around.
    2. We must leave the results to God (3:5-10). Jonah did not tell the Ninevite how to avoid being overthrown, yet God performed a mighty work.
    3. God's work does not depend upon the messenger - Jonah was a rebellious prophet; prejudiced and unconcerned; and was angry with the results. Yet God performed a mighty work in Nineveh. [P.S. this does not excuse us from being faithful]
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    And when we start questioning a sovereign God, or disobeying his command THEN WE become part of the problem, not the solution. Look what happened to Jonah when he didn't understand what GOD was doing: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry. . . Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live." . . . shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. . . Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live." But God said to Jonah, "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?" "I do," he said. "I am angry enough to die."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Folks that put salvation in the realm of man and NOT 100% of God could find themselves with similar depression and angst.
     
  5. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:

    2. The Lord initiated the plan (neither Jonah nor the Ninevites were interested in their fate).
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree that the Lord initiated the plan. But I'm not quite sure about your statement that the Ninevites were not interested in their fate. Seems to me, when they learned what their fate was going to be (especially that is was going to be negative), they became VERY interested. Or am I missing something here?
     
  6. rlvaughn

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    The Ninevites were not interested in their fate until God sent a prophet to tell them they were about to be destroyed. The statement is time sensitive - at the time God initiated the plan, the Ninevites were enjoying living in their sin, with no concern for its consequences.
     
  7. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:
    The Ninevites were not interested in their fate until God sent a prophet to tell them they were about to be destroyed. The statement is time sensitive - at the time God initiated the plan, the Ninevites were enjoying living in their sin, with no concern for its consequences.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't think the Ninevites were aware of the consequences. That's different than saying that they had "no concern". They thought everything was going just fine. They didn't know God was considering wiping them from the face of the Earth.

    Of course, once they found out, once they became aware of the consequences, they acted. They grieved and repented of their sin and God relented. Much to Jonah's dismay.
     
  8. Pioneer

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    Notice Jonah 3:5 - "So the people of Nineveh believed God ..."

    Then notice Jonah 3:10 - "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way ..."

    Here is what happened:

    #1 - The message was preached
    #2 - The people believed the message
    #3 - The people repented, turned from their wicked ways, and begged God for mercy
    #4 - The Lord saw the results of their faith and their repentance
    #5 - The Lord had mercy upon them

    God put the responsibility on the people to believe and repent. God granted mercy based upon the people's reaction to the message. Yes, salvation is of the Lord, but God does not save if man does not repent and believe.
     
  9. Pioneer

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:
    God's work does not depend upon the messenger<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is a bold face lie! Look what Jesus said in Matthew 9:

    36 - "But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

    37 - Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;

    38 - Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest."
     
  10. rlvaughn

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    Pioneer <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That is a bold face lie!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Pretty strong words in light of the fact that the messenger did not like the people, did not want to go, went the other way, slept while running from God, had to be thrown up on site by a whale, got mad when the people repented, wished he could die rather than see Nineveh delivered, and had more sympathy for his sorry little self having a shade than for thousands of people going down in destruction. God's work did not depend on the messenger. It depended on the message. Jonah, in spite of all his ridiculous faults, preached the message God gave him. I'm glad God's work does not depend on me and you - it depends on us preaching the right message. And I did add in parentheses that God completing a work in spite of Jonah's problems is no excuse for us to use to not be faithful. [side note to those who might want to put some thought into it: Why did God send Jonah? The book of II Kings, 14:23-25, puts him into an historical time frame by which we can determine there were other prophets contemporaneous with Jonah whom God might have just as well chosen.]

    Pioneer, as for your five points, I agree with all of them - that is precisely the time sequence of what happened. But had Jonah been a modern fundamentalist arminian easy-believism preacher, he would have preached the message, then explained in point by point detail how they could escape destruction, then explained it again, then ask if any wanted to believe, then he would have held out for 500 verses of some invitational song while explaining again what they could do, and finally finish by getting them to repeat a prayer after him just to be sure he got them all.

    Glory Bound <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> They thought everything was going just fine. They didn't know God was considering wiping them from the face of the Earth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    This is what I'm trying to say. You said it better. If God had not initiated and sent them a message, they still would be thinking everything was going just fine.
     
  11. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:
    Pretty strong words in light of the fact that the messenger did not like the people, did not want to go, went the other way, slept while running from God, had to be thrown up on site by a whale, got mad when the people repented, wished he could die rather than see Nineveh delivered, and had more sympathy for his sorry little self having a shade than for thousands of people going down in destruction. God's work did not depend on the messenger. It depended on the message. Jonah, in spite of all his ridiculous faults, preached the message God gave him. I'm glad God's work does not depend on me and you - it depends on us preaching the right message. And I did add in parentheses that God completing a work in spite of Jonah's problems is no excuse for us to use to not be faithful. [side note to those who might want to put some thought into it: Why did God send Jonah? The book of II Kings, 14:23-25, puts him into an historical time frame by which we can determine there were other prophets contemporaneous with Jonah whom God might have just as well chosen.]
    Pioneer, as for your five points, I agree with all of them - that is precisely the time sequence of what happened. But had Jonah been a modern fundamentalist arminian easy-believism preacher, he would have preached the message, then explained in point by point detail how they could escape destruction, then explained it again, then ask if any wanted to believe, then he would have held out for 500 verses of some invitational song while explaining again what they could do, and finally finish by getting them to repeat a prayer after him just to be sure he got them all.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Excellent points brother [​IMG]

    [ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]
     
  12. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:

    This is what I'm trying to say. You said it better. If God had not initiated and sent them a message, they still would be thinking everything was going just fine.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't think my original point has survived the discussion. Let me see if I can revive it. I was initially responding to your initial statement indicating that the Ninevites didn't care about their impending fate. This seemed to me to indicate that God saved them in spite of themselves. Perhaps I'm mistaken in the original intent.

    My point was intended to show that they cared very much about their fate, but we mistaken initially as to what that fate was. When they found out what God intended to do, they repented.

    The only real reason I brought up this point is that it sounded as if you were saying that God saved them in spite of themselves, when actually God saved them because of their actions of repentence. It may be a fine line there, but I think it's an important one. [​IMG]
     
  13. rlvaughn

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't think my original point has survived the discussion. Let me see if I can revive it. I was initially responding to your initial statement indicating that the Ninevites didn't care about their impending fate. This seemed to me to indicate that God saved them in spite of themselves. Perhaps I'm mistaken in the original intent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll try not to miss it this time. Here is the original copied also. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I agree that the Lord initiated the plan. But I'm not quite sure about your statement that the Ninevites were not interested in their fate. Seems to me, when they learned what their fate was going to be (especially that is was going to be negative), they became VERY interested.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I could say that there is a sense that God saved them (and US) in spite of themselves (ourselves). But I do not mean to imply they were mere robots, or their repentance was unimportant. The main truth I am trying to represent in point two is that of Romans - there is none that seeketh after God - and John - we love Him because He first loved us. God initiates. We respond. As far as I can tell, there is no internal evidence in the book of Jonah that indicates the Ninevites had any particular concern about their future (they were blissfully living in great wickedness), until God sent a man with a message. At the time God initiated the plan, the Ninevites had no concern for their fate; if the Ninevites were the initiators and God only the responder, they would never have been saved.
     
  14. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rlvaughn:
    The main truth I am trying to represent in point two is that of Romans - there is none that seeketh after God - and John - we love Him because He first loved us. God initiates. We respond.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is true. In fact, the story of Jonah and the Ninevites is an awesome example of how God loves everyone - in spite of their present condition. He reached out to the Ninevites while they were at their worst, and answered their pleas of repentance.

    rlvaughn, text based conversations are a funny thing, and sometimes we don't always read the written word with the same meaning as the author intended. I think I was responded to a certain phrasing that may have come across to me in a way you didn't intend. I appreciate the clairfication. [​IMG]
     
  15. rlvaughn

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    Perhaps it would be helpful for me to show how I think the deliverance of the Ninevites illustrates the spiritual truth of salvation. I believe that the story related in the book of Jonah was a definite historical occurrance of the deliverance of a city from physical destruction. I also believe it illustrates some truths of spiritual deliverance.

    1. The Lord originated the plan - Jesus stood a Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, in eternity, before the worlds were formed, before man was created, and certainly before man fell (Rev. 13; Isa. 46:10).
    2. The Lord initiated the plan - God sent His Son. As God sought Adam & Eve while they hid, so He seeks us first. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside...(Ps. 14; Rom. 3).
    3. The Lord controlled the circumstances - [Jesus], being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God...(Acts 2)
    4. The Lord gave the message - I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received (I Cor. 15).
    5. The Lord produced the results - this is the work of God, that ye believe on Him; faith is a gift of God (John 5; Eph. 2).

    [ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     

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