Jonathan Edwards on the Destruction of the Wicked

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Monergist, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Monergist

    Monergist
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    I see this topic coming up quite a bit here. Here's some food for thought:

    From THE END OF THE WICKED CONTEMPLATED BY THE RIGHTEOUS:
     
  2. rc

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    MOnergist,

    I beat you to the punch.... Did you see my post on the Dirty thread?

    They don't want to the proper theology.... they just want to see man as the center of their universe... even in heaven they are man centered!
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Hardsheller has been pounding me for insisting that Rev 14:10 SHOWS this to be the case given that the SAINTS are ever WITH CHRIST and the wicked are tormented "IN THE PRESENCE Of CHRIST".

    Odd that Edwards seem to get this part right - about the saints SEEING the torment of the wicked!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Hence the CFS --

    ================================
    <You see the problem when the Calvinist model is not “allowed the luxury" of disregarding the fate of the lost - as in the case above?>

    Here we see Calvinism’s view of God who (arbitrarily from the POV of human eyes) selects out the FEW of Matt 7 and loves THEM alone - and then represents that to Calvinists as "So Loving the World". Oh the pure joy that thought must cause the Calvinist mind.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Calvinist future scenario complete!


    Notice the “focus” in that perfect Calvinist utopian future - is always on “you” the one that is arbitrarily selected and then justifying the callous disregard of your precious child under the guise of “Well God does not HAVE to care about ANYONE just be glad YOU made it”.
    Fascinating!

    All well and good for the Cavlinist position - but what about the Arminian view?

    And for us Arminians (and our 3-Pt Calvinist Bretheren) - well we will just have to be content with the fact that God really DOES "So Love the World" not merely the "Few " of Matt 7 - and He is the "Atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT our sins only - but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2::2.

    We will have to be content in all eternity with the God that DOES Love ALL and died for ALL and "IS not WILLING for any to perish but for ALL to come to Repentance". Somehow that will have to help us enjoy eternity too. I wonder how we will fair by comparison.
    ====================================

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

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    THE big problem with that scenario "of course" is that a calvinist god would not even allow one MOMENT of love care and concern for one's lost little girl as the parent SEEs her being tormented in the flames!

    1 Cor 13 predictions about LOVE NOT being the thing that ENDS in heaven -- not withstanding.

    AFter all in every system you become "MORE" like the god you worship when you get to heaven - not LESS!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. whetstone

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    The Arminian God is a weeping mess of helplessness who pleads with sinners and finally (grudgingly) sends them to an eternity in hell because they rejected Christ. There is no triumph over sin here- no victory, and no joy. It is only sadness because these poor damned souls did not make the right choice. What foolishness Arminianism is.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Yeah and what about that Bible saying that SAME THING?? We should do a little cut-ang-paste all-for-Calvinism to put a stop to that nonsense!

    Lament over Jerusalem
    God is sorrowful and GRIEVES for the lost and for the fact that He has done so much to win them - yet they TURN away.
    God’s Spirit is grieved by the rebellion of His CHOSEN people His HOLY nation His ROYAL priesthood. Yes even by the LOST among them – even the worst among them.
    ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!

    </font>[/QUOTE]As pointed out - 1Cor 13 states clearly that it is LOVE that DOES NOT end!

    As pointed out - we become MORE Like that "weeping" caring God in whom "ALL HIS COMPASSIONS" are stirred up over the case of the wicked for HE HAS NO PLEASURE in their death.

    Which is why in Rev 21 it is only AFTER the judgment of the wicked, and AFTER the lake of fire, and AFTER the new Earth is created that we see the promise of EVERY TEAR wiped away!!

    What a great BIBLE!!

    How sad that it is not wanted for ALL that it says in those cut-and-paste methods of Calvinism.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. rc

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    Bob,
    reconcile "God HATES the wicked"....

    Crying Hallelujah is Rev 19 is it not?
    Fighting against scripture to "fit" your humanistic philosphy again....oh the preciousness of the goodness of man... hail him!

    Romans 9:15-16 "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,(1 )but on God, who has mercy.
    Still fighting for man huh Bob? ...
     
  9. Monergist

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    I missed it somehow. That's a great quote from Edwards too. [​IMG]
     
  10. BobRyan

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    Calvinism"
    But in the Bible it is to BOTH the wicked and the righteous that God shows kindness love, patience and long suffering ---

    For in the BIBLE

    Romans 9:15-16 "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,(1 )but on God, who has mercy"

    With the result that God HAS GREAT patience EVEN on those "Vessels of wrath" for HE CONVICTS THE WORLD as the Savior of the WORLD who is the atoning sacirifice for the sins OF THE WHOLE WORLD. God CALLING ALL MANKIND EVERYWHERE to repentance!! -- Yes "even" the vessels of wrath!!

    That was pretty easy.

    Next.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. rc

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    God CALLING ALL MANKIND EVERYWHERE to repentance!! -- Yes "even" the vessels of wrath!!

    What's your point? That God calls everyone? ... Tell us something we don't know! The vessels of wrath are APPOINTED for wrath... yes they are called, that's the point! They will not EVER repent though, because of the fact.

    THAT was easy!
     
  12. Wes Outwest

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    Monergist,
    Your OP quote, is by one who hasn't got a clue about what the saints in Heaven will see, do, feel, or experience. And if you believe that claptrap, you don't either!
     
  13. Monergist

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    You want to put some substance to that by pointing out where Edwards is wrong?
     
  14. Scott J

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    Are you serious Monergist? You should just accept what Wes says as if it were inspired.

    Seriously though Wes, do you deem yourself qualified to dismiss one of the great English speaking preacher/evangelists ever just because you don't like what he says?

    Could it be that someone who studied the scripture as intently as Edwards did have a clue and someone who so readily dismisses scripture's authority is the one without a clue?
     
  15. Wes Outwest

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    You want to put some substance to that by pointing out where Edwards is wrong? </font>[/QUOTE]
    After the Judgement, this heaven and earth shall pass away! The lake of fire is part of "this heaven and earth" because evil will exist no more in the New Heaven and New earth. No one will ever again be cast into a lake of fire because it too will not exist...for all of eternity. No one will say to another, "lets go down to the lake and watch the devil and demons and unbelievers squirm in torment! There will be no more lake of fire, else it would be described as part of the New Heaven and Earth. Evil would be identified as ingredient of eternal life.

    Think about it! How would the new be different than the old if all of that still existed?
     
  16. rc

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    I'm sorry Wes,
    But for you to correct Edwards might be the most prideful and ignorant things I've EVER heard. Did you graduate Yale at 14? Masters at 17? Didn't think so. Learn from the teachers God has gifted. By mocking and rejecting their teachings leaves you in your present state, prideful and uneducated.
     
  17. BobRyan

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  18. rc

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    His statements about their getting a lot of chuckles out of seeing the lost

    YOU are in Sin Bob....
    Jonathan Edwards, never said we would be chuckling.... you LIE... and you grossly misunderstand about EVERYTHING he says... It would help if you READ everything He wrote on the subject and weigh it carefully before commenting on it.
     
  19. BobRyan

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    Your obligatory ranting is not open to response - but the quote from Edwards is "instructive".

    Here then is the wonderful JOY at seeing the torment of the lost - that we find in Edward's quote.

    The very thing RC claims "does not exist"!!

    How wonderful that Calvinism seem to have no fact at all to hang its hat on in this particular point!!

    Hence the obligatory ranting in RC's post above. (Typical of any argument that has run out of evidence, reason and logic to sustain it).


    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Correction - I should have included REJOICING to that quote on JOY!!

    Whew!! What a lot of thrilling JOY and REJOICING! Such a mild term like "Chuckle" hardly BEGINS to touch the point of JOY and REJOICING!! Good thing RC insists we give it the full throttle REJOICING and JOY - and not leave anyone in doubt that it might just be mild demure chuckle/smile/approval.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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