just HOW Do You see God Handling "problem" of Those Who NEVER Heard About Jesus?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could be heather/pagen in some far of nation, could be someone right here in America...

    How do you understand from biblical eveidence just HOW God will choose to deal with them?
     
  2. Greektim

    Greektim
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,143
    Likes Received:
    118
    They're all w/out excuse
     
  3. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no problem. Every human being has been given the light (John 1:9), Creation (Romans 1), God's law written on their heart (Romans 2:14-15), the desire to live beyond this present life (Ecclesiastes 3:11), and having been placed in the perfect location and place within time to seek Him (Acts 17:26-27)

    Like Greektim said...they are most definitely without excuse!
     
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you would see ALL of them lost, going to hell then?
     
  5. MB

    MB
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    13
    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    No one at the great white throne judgement will have an excuse. There will be no "God made me do it" or, "the devil made me do it" Everyone is responsible for there own rebellion.
    MB
     
  6. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    If they exchanged the truth presented to them that I outlined above for a lie, God is not obligated by any means to present them the Gospel.
     
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    So A calvinist might be able to say that God will make sure to get the message in some fashion to his elected out ones, in order for them to be able to place faith in jesus...that he will quicken them renwew them in order to receive message he will get out to them...

    If one is an Arminian, have no real hope assurance that Any of these people will get saved?
     
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Take Romans 1:20 and add Matt 13:12 and you have your answer.

    Matthew 13:12 For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even what he has.

    Also:
    John 1:9 That was the true Light, that lights every man that comes into the world.



    God has revealed Himself to every man through creation and the conscience (knowledge of right and wrong). Anyone desiring to know more will be given more knowledge by God.

    I've heard many stories of missionaries that have gone to remote parts of the world to be told by people they witnessed to that they had prayed to God (creator) for answers. God will provide anyone the chance to be redeemed if only they seek Him.
     
  9. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure which people you are referring to.

    As a non-cal, non-arm I am quite confident the Gospel will be presented to everyone God intends it to be presented to.
     
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just curious, which "camp" do you see yourself in, if neither Arminian/calvinist?
     
  11. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Soteriologically speaking, I side closer to the Free Grace perspective (although that term is redundant).
     
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    just curious...

    cals/Arms also see it as being "free Grace"

    What do you hold to that neither camp would hold to?
     
  13. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's my take on the OP.

    Paul, in Romans 2 says a couple of things that I think are key.

    In 2:14, Paul says those who don't have the law are a law unto themselves.

    He also says that the law is written on their hearts. What does that mean?

    I th8nki it means that all of us have a sense of right and wrong--a moral code. Those who have never heard the gospel will be judged on how they have kept their own moral code--and of course, they will acknowledge that they have not kept it, and willfully broke it. That is the basis for their condemnation.

    They cannot be condemned for rejecting Jesus, of whom they have never heard. They have never been presented with the claims of the gospel.

    There are some who have argued on this board that they must have heard the gospel, some way, somehow. If that is the case, then let's call home all our missionaries, for God has provided another way of salvation without the preaching of the gospel. If this is the case, then let's not take a chance that someone may hear the gospel and reject it.

    I know, looking at creation gives evidence of a creator, so yes, they are without excuse. But creation doesn't tell them about Jesus, so we have to look for another basis for their condemnation. That's what I think I've done.
     
    #13 Tom Butler, Jun 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2011
  14. gloopey1

    gloopey1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Bible tells us in Titus 2:11, "for the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men." This and the other aforementioned verses tell me that no one who stands before the throne of judgment someday will have the "I never heard" excuse.
     
  15. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not the same thing. Google Free Grace Alliance and Grace Evangelical Society.
     
  16. gloopey1

    gloopey1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have several books published by the late Zane Hodges and had the opportunity to speak to him personally twice over the phone. He definitely had insight into the Word of God that the average Southern Baptist lacks.
     
  17. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no problem.

    In the gosple of John the scriptures tell us that Christ gives "light" to every man that comes into the world. And its obvious that He is not talking about the sun coming up every day.

    He is clearly referring to spiritual revelation.

    There is the Light of creation.
    There is the Light of conscience
    And there is any additional Light that He might grant.

    Our God is all powerfull, and He has everything at His disposal, from the expanse of the universe to the tinyest cell.

    The ones who lived thier entire life outside of the reach of the Gosple have indeed "heard"

    God loves them, and will save them, if they choose wisely.

    Just like us who have heard.
     
  18. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    How does that work? And why are we sending missionaries? How did they become aware of sin, judgment, Hell, and Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Gospel IS the chosen agent/means by which He has elected to have His saints receive Jesus Christ and Eternal Life....

    God places burden on his Body on the earth to go out and preach/teach to all, so that SOME might come to faith and believe in the name of His Son jesus...

    NONE will have any excuse...

    isn't that the lament of many Arminians, that God is unjuist/cruel in that he deals unfairly with people, everyone not giving "same chance?"
     
  20. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom...

    Regarding the judgement of those who never heard the gosple of Jesus Christ, you asked...

    Beautifully.

    You dont know?

    Because we have a great treasure to share with people!! The Gospel of Jesus Christ!!

    What?? They havent heard of the death, burial and ressurection of Christ, Tom. Thats the whole point. :wavey:

    Do you actually think that God is going to condemn millions to hell for rejecting a message that the never heard! :eek:

    C'mon, Tom. Put your thinking cap on.

    Since they never heard the gosple, they will be fairly judged by the revelation, or "light" that they DID recieve.

    The Light of concience, and the Light nature, and any other revelation God might choose to give them.
     

Share This Page

Loading...