Just saw the film.....

Here's another link to his article from CBN. Need I list them all or will you just find fault with every site?

http://www.cbn.com/SpiritualLife/easter/A_Physician's_View_of_the_Crucifixion_of_Jesus_Christ.asp

 

I believe blackbird brought this up and I agree.

The separation felt by Christ on the Cross was a greater suffering than the beatings. But this aspect of that suffering speaks of his eternal nature as God (I and the Father are one, the father is in me and I in him).

This movie only shows the imaginations of a man and that imagination focuses on the flesh. His intentions may have been good, I don't know about that. But he has not presented the Gospel, nor made a very good attempt to present it. For that reason it is not comparable to all the ways that God has used to speak to his.

Remember the Bible says that in these last days he has spoken to us by his son. This again speaks to his eternal nature.

I concede the few minutes representing the resurrection would speak of his eternal nature. But the focus on the fleshly cruelties gives the impression we are justified by that when it is his resurrection that we are justified by.

Further, in type from the OT it is the receiving of the offering and taking of that offering that symbolized God's acceptance of that offering.

True, the physical suffering is meant to be due to the sins of the world, but at the same time it is not the gift that sanctifies the altar, but the altar and the altar here is not the cross, nor the suffering but the body of Christ because in that body is the tabernacle of God. For he is God with us and manifested in the flesh he abode among men (thus 'tabernacled among us). It is his diety that santified all this and not his flesh. It is his blood that cleanseth from all sin, but rising from the grave and entering into the holy of holies he has sprinkled that blood.

Consider the scapegoat. The one whose lot it was to be the burnt offering, broken on the altar, the other whose lot it was to have the sin of Israel confessed over him and to carry away that sin.

There is much more here than is portrayed simply by the suffering, though the suffering cannot and should not be separated from the rest of that picture.

In Emmerich's book there is a passage that relates the prayer of Jesus during his suffering and while on the cross. this prayer asks God to permit his suffering to be worthy and acceptable to provide strength to all who would suffer in a similar way.

Was this the prayer of Christ? Was this the purpose of Christ? To go so far, but draw back from providing a reconciliation complete in all its ends and purposes? To provide a means but not an end?

Bro. Dallas

 

No offense Diane, but the Doctor on the LDS site is an eye doctor. "Dr. C. Truman Davis is a nationally respected Opthalmologist". The best site for this medical explanation is the Mayo Clinic site. You can find it re-posted on many Catholic sites.

 

What?? Did I miss something? </font>[/QUOTE]No you didn't miss anyhting. It appears to be a personal attack.

 

I think that conviction should be biblicaly based, not movie based. If you were convicted by those reeds he was beaten with then thats not biblical conviction.

 

Donna, Scarlett has been a wonderful Christian for many years. So it was not a conviction to Christ or Christianity she is talking about. It was the impact of realizing the horror of the suffering Christ endured, no matter how many the count of beatings was.

I have been convicted by pulling weeds before! Realizing that my sins, like the weeds, had better be dealt with when they are small rather than waiting until they were larger and 'more visible' -- and had their roots wrapped around my life!

Not biblical, but God uses a lot of things to help us understand a number of different spiritual points. He used this movie for Scarlett and for a number of others.

She was not less of a Christian before; she is not more of a Christian now. But there may be a depth to some of her understanding now that was not there before.

That being said, I am still not going to see the movie! After raising six kids and having multiple surgeries myself, I'm just not up for more blood and pain! Personally, I don't want a movie image in my mind every time I take Communion. That is my personal 'thing,' and God made each of us individual -- for which I am eternally grateful!

 

Donna,

I am not only impressed by your sound logic, but also by the fact that anyone could have 8,000 posts.

donnA
8,000 Posts Club
Member # 260

 

well, thank you, but I'm pretty slow about posting, I've noticed people who've been here half what I have and have managd to opost more then 10,000. Having something to say seems to come in spurts for me.

 

I am aware of this. I was not addressing this.
She seemed to be saying it convicted her of her own personal sins.
As many have said on here many times when the topic of conviction has come up, conviction comes from God and scripture.

 

Donna, what does God use to convict people? He used weeds for me once. I don't think He is limited in what He uses.

In fact, the actions of Hitler and the Third Reich toward the Jews did a lot to convince me of the accuracy of Scripture and the OT prophecies! God uses all manner of things for all manner of people. The Bible says He uses creation itself to inform us about some of His character (Romans 1).

There is no need to judge another's reaction when they say God used something that really spoke to them in one way or another.

 

Er, uh, if Hitler and the 3rd Reich convinced you of the accuracy of Scripture...

...no offense, but do you think God "uses" evil and hate to accomplish anything good????

Would you say God uses child molestors and gang rape and abortion and gay marriage and crack houses and Mafia dons and unmentionably depraved acts to accomplish His ends? This is creepy, sister. Surely you spoke in haste here.

I'm not joking here. What you just said is very disturbing. Could you please clarify?

I mean I think it's strange to say horridly evil people and fiendish events aid God, who is Holy and Totally Opposed to Sin/Evil/Hate/Cruelty.

God mournfully observes the wickedness of humanity, and pleads with us to turn from sin and turn to Him.

But I will not say that immensely wicked people and events contribute to the advancement of God's kingdom. Jesus never said anything like this. He said offenses would come, but "woe unto that person through whom they come." Not "but the offenses will draw some people to God"!!!!

Peace.

 

Are you nuts??? Come on vaspers, we even teach our 1st grade in Sunday School class that God can use bad events and bad people for His purpose.

...sure God uses evil to accomplish His purpose.
The savagery of the cross wasn't exactly just punishment. That was evil beyond measure that God used to save our wretched souls.

Bless God who uses all things to accomplish His purpose.

Rob

 

Thanks, Rob.

Vaspers, the Prophets in the OT predict that the Jewish people will undergo terrible times and trials and yet will not lose their identity. Our most recent examples of this are in the Third Reich and the Pogroms of Russia. These would have destroyed other ethnicities. But not the Jews. When I was a teen and I realized what had happened, I began to understand that the prophecies in the Bible were to be understood as actually being from God and that the Bible could be trusted.

And yes, we know that all things work together for the good of those who love God....

 

I understand what you're saying but be careful saying these things to secular people.

They may consider us insensitive, uncaring, or even a bit eccentrically repulsive if we say God who is Holy "uses" unholy means to achieve a holy result. Most secular thinkers reject the idea that the end justifies the means.

I guess it is all in how you state these things. But I have to tell you, it sure is hard to see how God can "use" child molestors and rapists and cannibalistic serial killers. On a deep theological level we can see how good can come out of bad.

 

One way He uses them is to show us how horrid sin really is and where it leads. That alone is enough to refute the concept that 'we are all really good on the inside...'

The flip side to God not only permitting such evil, but actually using it is that

1. There is such a thing as useless, meaningless pain

and/or

2. God did not know something was going to happen

and/or

3. God was powerless to prevent the evil from happening

There are probably a few more options, but I think you can see what I mean. What I tell people who ask about the horrors and pain and evil in the world is something along the lines of the following:

First of all, it is a natural result of man's sinful, rebellious nature. But we know that men do not do all the evil they want to do or even plan to do. I am convinced God does control just how far the expression of evil in a man's heart is allowed to go. I know there will come a time when we will see what has really been going on -- the whole picture -- and then we will finally understand. Until then, I know I can trust God and that I have to be patient. It doesn't mean that I am any the less repulsed by evil and its consequences than you are, but it does mean that the evil does not erase the hope and faith I have because I know God.

 

Ok, I just saw the movie as well...very powerful!

I'll tell you what I took from it. It's absolutely infathomable that a mere man would endure what Jesus endured and not defend himself. He knew what His purpose was and He obediently did what the Father asked of Him. No mere man would do what He did...if the beatings He truly endured were even half of what were depicted in the film, it was still horrendous and still no mere man would endure that for the sake of people who betrayed Him, mocked Him, spat at Him, and continually insulted Him. I'm taking from this film a renewed reverent respect, love and adoration for the Son of God whom I call my Saviour...

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

Kathy---and others---while I cannot deny that the REAL Jesus was beaten prior to the cross---I can deny that it was to the extent of the movie's depiction---there is no earthly way any man could survive without going into shock----I've seen people with far less, far less, far less, far less lacerations and contusions from auto accidents---be either killed or go into secondary and first degree shock---the human body cannot tolerate the extent of what is depicted in the movie----it just don't add up!

I have a church member who is a trauma room technition and a trauma medic for the US Army with the rank of Colonial---he saw the movie and commented---"There's no way any man could survived the trauma depicted"----

I'm glad you guys are enjoying the movie---but to be so close to what scripture tells us---it just don't add up to what scripture tells us is the truth!

 

All I can say to that blackbird is that Jesus wasn't "just" a man. I believe the same as you, that there is no way any man could survive that trauma &lt;dramatic pause&gt; except Jesus. That utter unbelief is depicted in the movie. ::Spoiler Alert:: The scene where he is being flogged and he falls down...a few minutes pass and he stands back up (not easily) but he does...the Roman Soldiers look at each other in disbelief.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

Kathy--yes, Jesus is 100% man---but not Superman! He was a man of "like" passion as we are---yet without sin---His tolerance of pain in human flesh--I still say that the movie lines were made up from Emmerich's (false)vision depicting Jesus being whipped with over 5000 lashes----no earthly way anybody would survive that---

Which leads to my next point---if a movie was made based solely on what is recorded in the Bible---take away all of the "Emmerich" version of the sufferings and the scourging and replace it with the Bible version after a detailed study of Greek contexts and tones---that there would'nt be enough "action" to draw people to see it----I preach solely on the Greek context to half empty pews---but if I got my hands on the Passion video and showed it---I'd have to ask the Property Committee to triple our worship center seating capacity.