Justice Department: FBI acted illegally on data

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JamieinNH, Mar 9, 2007.

  1. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Audit finds agency misused Patriot Act to obtain information on citizens


    WASHINGTON - The FBI improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA Patriot Act to secretly obtain personal information about people in the United States, a Justice Department audit concluded Friday.

    And for three years the FBI has underreported to Congress how often it forced businesses to turn over the customer data, the audit found.


    FBI agents sometimes demanded the data without proper authorization, according to the 126-page audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn Fine. At other times, the audit found, the FBI improperly obtained telephone records in non-emergency circumstances.

    STORY LINK

    Is anyone really surprised by this? It was only a matter of time before they would abuse the new found powers....

    Jamie
     
  2. carpro

    carpro
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    The audit blames agent error and shoddy record-keeping for the bulk of the problems and did not find any indication of criminal misconduct.
     
  3. poncho

    poncho
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    The people in charge always say "we are the ones responsible" and then turn around and say "it's so and so fault" nothing new here. Or like John Stewart said the other night..."I'm not picking my nose, my hand is picking my nose".
     
  4. Terry_Herrington

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    Yea, I'm sure that's it! :rolleyes:
     
  5. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Who said anything about criminal?!? Besides, does it really matter how or who is to blame? The point is the FBI didn't follow the law, even if it was clerical...

    At least Muller seems to want to take the blame and notices that something has to be done..

    "FBI Director Robert Mueller said he was to blame for not putting more safeguards into place. “I am to be held accountable,” Mueller said. He told reporters he would correct the problems and did not plan to resign.
    “The inspector general went and did the audit that I should have put in place many years ago,” Mueller said.

    From the article is the perfect quote that sums up this mess...

    Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., another member of the judiciary panel, said the report "proves that 'trust us' doesn't cut it."


    'Trust us' doesn't cut it anymore... That sums it up in my opinion.

    Jamie
     
  6. carpro

    carpro
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    I wonder if any citizen has come forward claiming to have been damaged in some way by the FBI's quest for information.:confused:
     
  7. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    I wonder what it would take for you to get excited about something that isn't aimed at someone on the left.

    The damage is the trust level our government is losing. Once trust has been broken, it's hard to gain it back. Just because you have your blinders on and can't see that it's hard for people to trust what the government says don't make it any less true.

    They made mistakes. They admit they made mistakes. They are working to fix them so they say. The bottom line, like I quoted in my other post is we can't just accept the saying "trust us" anymore. We can no longer trust the groups that are suppose to protect us.


    Jamie
     
  8. carpro

    carpro
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    I'm not sure. Were the FBI agents righties or lefties?:confused:
     
  9. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Staged confussion maybe, but just in case you're really stuck in the dark...

    You seem to post thread after thread about anyone on the left and hardly ever, if ever a story about someone on the right.

    To use your own words, you seem to want the "scoop".

    This FBI article clearly shows us that we, as the people can not even trust our own to protect us and be honest with us.

    You can seem confussed all you want, it doesn't change a thing..

    It's the moto of the guys on the RIGHT... deny deny deny, reflect blame reflect blame reflect blame, and when all else fails.... admit you were wrong, but only after so much time has past that people don't even remember the story...

    You on the other hand can't even admit when you're wrong. In this thread and in many other threads in the past.. When you are against the wall, you just stop posting, or post something that has nothing to do with the thread in a "joking" manner.

    Classic for you.

    Jamie
     
  10. carpro

    carpro
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    Isn't it odd that you feel that way but participate in the discussions anyway?

    I suppose that's because it gives you an opportunity to express your disdain for the subject and personal distaste for me. That's OK, but...

    You're wasting your time, your bleatings have no affect on how I feel or what I post...

    at all.:wavey:

    Maybe I should remind you this is a politics forum and posting topics that everyone agrees on would be somewhat boring, so I post subjects that will hopefully draw a reaction, but you don't have to read it or react.
     
    #10 carpro, Mar 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2007
  11. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Of course I do, with the topics that interest me. There are always two sides to every story. You post people's opinions, and then we respond. Isn't that how it works. My point was, your postings show you what side of "Right" you really stand on.

    Opportunity to express my disdain for the subject yes, but I have never stated nor had any personal distaste for you. your style, yes. you, no. Even if you are on the other side of the aisle, you are still one of my Christian brothers. I can disagree with your topics, or your style without having distaste for you yourself. I don't know you other than here on the BB, how could I dislike you.

    Again, it the style and tactics you use that I dislike.


    I don't consider anything I do here on the BB a waste of time, if that was the case, I wouldn't bother being here to start with. Thanks for trying to point that out, but you missed on this point.


    Ah, you do it to get a reaction then, not to show the truth, or help people decide a better fate for this country.. Now it all makes sense.

    And you're right I don't have to read or react to it, I only do so if I feel led to, there are plenty of copy and paste threads you post that I ignore. :)

    Jamie
     
  12. poncho

    poncho
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    I believe the National Security Letters contain a gag order making it illegal for anyone to come forward that have received one.
     
  13. carpro

    carpro
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    Once again. I couldn't care less whether you like the style , the tactics, or the subject.

    But you might try spending more time dealing with the subject (if it interests you)and less with your own personal likes and dislikes about style.

    I don't care much for yours either. The difference is I don't delude myself into thinking it matters to anyone but me, so I have kept it to myself until now and will henceforth as well..

    Your real problem with this particular thread is you don't really want to hear any opinion different from yours. If you can't take the responses, maybe you should reconsider whether or not to post the subject at all.
     
    #13 carpro, Mar 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2007
  14. carpro

    carpro
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    I'm speaking of individuals and your gag order applies to firms that participated in the information sharing.
     
  15. carpro

    carpro
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    Does that mean you question the results of the audit?
     
  16. carpro

    carpro
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    You did.

    Did you not want us to read your source article or should we just skip over the parts you don't want to deal with?

    If so, please notify us in advance what parts we should ignore.
     
  17. poncho

    poncho
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    It isn't my gag order. If the firms the NSL's apply to are under a gag order and cannot tell the individuals who's personal information they have given to the FBI, CIA, NSA or other agencies how would those individuals who's personal info has been "shared" be able to come forward and complain? IOW they would have no way of knowing their information was "shared" in the first place. That would make complaining about it alot harder if not impossible don't you think?

    Having no individual complaints doesn't automatically equate to having no violation of rights or privacy. It could just mean no one is allowed to know whether or not their rights or privacy has been or is being violated.
     
    #17 poncho, Mar 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2007
  18. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    Where?

    Had I wanted to try to hide something I would have posted information without a linkie... as some have done on this board.

    There is nothing in the article I don't want to "deal with", again your words.. I posted the article because it shows that you can't just have a blank check and expect the people to nod their head in agreement anymore.

    What would have happened had this audit not happened? Do you really think the FBI would have come clean on their own?!? I doubt it. Check and Balances..

    As far as the notification goes... you decide what you want to read or not. :) You seem pretty good at picking and choosing all by yourself.

    Jamie
     
  19. JamieinNH

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    It doesn't surprise me.. I only mentioned what I disagreed with because you wanted to spin it like I was directing my comments at you. I don't care if it changes you or not. That wasn't my point, but your comments sure do speak volumes about you...

    Well, I did start this thread, and have posted in it my opinion of the ordeal, and have of course responded to your snips and comments in between. If you haven't read my response to the article, then I suggest you start at the top.

    I never thought it matter to anyone. Boy, you sure do know how to add words to people's mouths and thoughts don't you? To me, style here on the BB is like in real life. If a Christian brother was cussing and didn't think it was wrong, I will mention it to him, what he does with my advice is his business, but I would have done my best to guide him. The same goes here, if someone sees someone acting a way that they think they shouldn't then it should be mentioned.

    I am sure you will take it with a grain of salt, but that won't stop me to responding. You won't change, and that's ok.

    Really? Where did you get that from? Can you point me to it in this thread?

    You would like me to go away wouldn't you? Sorry, I like it here. :)

    Jamie
     

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