Justices Turn Aside Ten Commandments Case

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Chris Temple, May 29, 2001.

  1. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    Justices Turn Aside Ten Commandments Case
    By Susan Jones
    CNSNews.com Morning Editor
    May 29, 2001

    (CNSNews.com) - A conservative legal group says the U.S. Supreme Court, in turning aside an Indiana Ten Commandments case, has "missed an important opportunity to clarify an issue that has become the center of a national debate."

    On Tuesday, the Justices let stand a lower-court ruling involving the public display of the Ten Commandments in Elkhart, Indiana. A granite marker bearing the Commandments has stood on government property in front of city building since 1958, but it took forty years -- until 1998 - for two offended residents to sue the city on the grounds that it was promoting religion.

    A lower court ruled that the marker violated the Constitution's establishment of religion clause, and because the Supreme Court refused to hear the case, that lower-court ruling stands. It's now up to a federal judge to say what the city must do about the monument.

    Justices Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas said they would like to have heard the case, and they indicated they found nothing wrong with the display.

    The Virginia-based American Center for Law and Justice, which represented the city of Elkhart, said it is disappointed that the Supreme Court did not consider "the most important First Amendment issue."

    Francis J. Manion, the ACLJ's senior counsel, said, "The Court's decision not to weigh in on the Ten Commandments issue will only add to the confusion surrounding the displays of Ten Commandments in communities across America."

    The Elkhart City Council, faced with the lawsuit in 1998, declared the granite marker a "historical and cultural monument that reflects one of the earliest codes of human conduct."

    The ACLJ said it will "continue to meet legal challenges posted by the American Civil Liberties Union and other special interest groups that are targeting Ten Commandments displays...which are at the foundation of the history and heritage of our country."
     
  2. NateT

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    There is a similar case brought on by the ACLU and defended by the same ACLJ in Plattsmouth, NE.
     
  3. Gina B

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    Will some lawyer please stand up and let them know that they come from a book, not a religion!
    Some people worship the sun. If a quote from a book about the sun was posted, nobody would have a problem.
    It's all in how you take the book.
    Perfectly legal argument. Why hasn't anybody used it?
    Baffled
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Probably because it is not an honest argument...it does come from the law of God and is therefore religious in nature. Most laws today are religious in origen, because our God has given us his law as a moral compass.

    Joseph
     
  5. Santa

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    Religion is a personal and private affair and I am immediately weary of the true faith of one who feels the need to have their beliefs posted in every forum even a public forum that all are exposed to and all fund. Jesus taught us to respect different faiths. An individual will not convert because he or she saw the 10 commandments on the court house, they will onvert because of the example set forth by Christians and like wise will be turned away by the subjugation of other faiths and the faithless by Christians.
     
  6. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Santa:
    Jesus taught us to respect different faiths.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh Really?? Chapter and verse please! :confused:

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
     
  7. Santa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I also remember Jesus instructing us to treat others as we would want to be treated.
     
  8. Gina B

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    Watch your step, Mr. Temple. Christmas is coming sooner than you'd think. :D
    True, Santa, about showing an example in our lives.
    The rest is absurd.
    "And these word........thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy childre, and shll talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou WALKEST BY THE WAY, andvwhen thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
    And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes
    And thou shalt WRITE THEM UPON THE POSTS OF THY HOUSE, AND ON THY GATES."
    Somewhere in Deuteronomy, chapter 6?
    That was God speaking.
    We do these things,like the Mez. on the doorposts, so that EVERY time you leave and enter you are reminded of God and his promises and commandments.
    We see posters of people posing in their personals, hear radios blaring rock, etc etc, this is Satan's religion being forced on us. What percentage of the crud posted out there is to remind us of God?
    Keep in mind you're on God's side on this issue.
    Do not be embarassed of your beliefs. Do you ever feel the need to shout it from the rooftops? Walk down the streets preaching it? Or do you hold back on every opportunity you get because you don't want to offend?
    I'd love to see some Gentiles take up the tradition of wearing the commandments on their foreheads. Just for one day! :eek:
    Gina
     
  9. Santa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Do not be embarassed of your beliefs. Do you ever feel the need to shout it from the rooftops? Walk down the streets preaching it? Or do you hold back on every opportunity you get because you don't want to offend?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    No I do not feel the need to advertise my faith because it certainly isn't Jesus like. Jesus wants us to reflect his love by our actions and in that sense I do shout by expressing unconditional love and living a moral life. Again, public spaces do not belong exclusively to Christians and they certainly do not belong to Baptists alone. It is utter arrogance for one faith to force their religious beliefs on an otherwise free society. Wear your faith on your sleeve if you please just don't shove it in my force nor attempt to teach it to my children with my tax dollars.
     
  10. Gina B

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    Darn. Who made that "No personal flames" rule anyway? ;)
    As you like it.
    I can somewhat see your point, as this would open the door to all other religions to do the same, but guess what?
    They already are.
    Jesus walked and talked his religion up and down the public streets. Was he wrong? Was he giving us a bad example of how to act?
    I'm not quite sure of how to respond to you, so can I ask what your age range is? High school, college?
    Gina
     
  11. Santa

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    No problem, I attend a large University in Austin.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I can somewhat see your point, as this would open the door to all other religions to do the same, but guess what?
    They already are.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Actually I am curious where you have seen religions other than Judeo-Christianity dominate the public domain of our society? I have never seen "praise to Allah" on City Hall or the Ten Commandments of Buudah at school. Would you be just as willing to allow Satanic Cultists to instruct your children or have their beliefs posted anywhere public?
     
  12. Gina B

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    If it is not of God it is of Satan.
    The Satanic religion is practiced by the majority of unsaved people. Like I said before, we are slammed by Satanism every time we step outside. In the bookstores, in the movies, by posters. They certainly are not advertising Christianity!
    Get a book on Satanic symbols. Get to know what they are. Then start by looking up. Look at the symbols on top of different buildings. A lot of courthouses have them. Then start looking at jewelry. Perhaps the most noticeable is the looped cross. Look at the cartoons and shows on PBS. Supported by you, the viewer. Go into your public library. The books on witchcraft and how to practice it are all there. Did you find a Bible? Go to a public school and please do find out who is teaching your children. Could very well be a Satanist. Or a gay person. Perhaps not shouting their beliefs to your kids, but teaching them quietly, by the example in the way they live.
    Gina
     
  13. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Santa doesn't grasp the most fundamental aspect of Christianity and the nature of God...that, as stated above, "Jesus said I AM the way, the truth, the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me".

    Christianity is the ONLY TRUE "religion", ALL OTHERS are WRONG WRIONG WRONG! That means that we follow Jesus' commandment to treat others as we would like to be treated, but also that, as God says, "Righteousness (true Christianity) exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people". Any false religion is sin.

    So Santa, if you want to be hostile toward the ONLY TRUE GOD AND SAVIOUR go ahead, I have no reason, desire, or right persecute you but I ask you to carefully reconsider your position before it's eternally too late. Life here is very short.
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Amen Jim!!!!!!!!!!

    Joseph
     
  15. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Santa:

    No I do not feel the need to advertise my faith because it certainly isn't Jesus like. Jesus wants us to reflect his love by our actions and in that sense I do shout by expressing unconditional love and living a moral life. Again, public spaces do not belong exclusively to Christians and they certainly do not belong to Baptists alone. It is utter arrogance for one faith to force their religious beliefs on an otherwise free society. Wear your faith on your sleeve if you please just don't shove it in my force nor attempt to teach it to my children with my tax dollars.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You certainly speak authoritatively about what Jesus did and didn't do, but it is readily apparent that you do not have a clue. Have you read his authoritative word? Jesus did not "advertise" his faith; he proclaimed it. He does not attempt to be nice to everyone; rather he commands every man everywhere to repent and believe in him or face God's wrath.

    As is typical of liberals, your argument is based in ad hominems "arrogant", "force", "shove", but when liberals and atheists rule the day with their forced abominations, it is, presumably, living a life of tolerance.

    You are not concerned with having someone else' religion shoved in your face or having it taught to your children with your tax dollars; you just don't want to be reminded of God's perfect Law which will reveal to you that your life really is not one of "unconditional love and morality".

    John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Amen!!!!!!!!!

    Joseph
     
  17. Santa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You are not concerned with having someone else' religion shoved in your face or having it taught to your children with your tax dollars; you just don't want to be reminded of God's perfect Law which will reveal to you that your life really is not one of "unconditional love and morality". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Wow! I am saddened that your view of Jesus and his love is so constricted. I hope that Jesus reveals his love to you as only in it will you find true happiness.

    I am concerned with anyone forcing their faith on anyone. If you would remember, the inquisition didn't change hearts it merely instituted fear and resentment. If your proposal is a Baptist inquisition of all "Satanic" infidels who do not share you faith then God help us. We live in a nation of religious freedom where all are free to practice their faith or practice no faith. If someone gets in my face and arrogantly tells me why I am going to hell you can bet I will not see your "enlightened faith" I will see Satan's hate, spite and utter lack of understanding of Jesus' teachings.
     
  18. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Santa:
    [QB] Wow! I am saddened that your view of Jesus and his love is so constricted....I am concerned with anyone forcing their faith on anyone....inquisition .... fear and resentment.... Baptist inquisition ....gets in my face .... arrogantly tells me .... hate, spite and utter lack of understanding .... QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Again, you exhibit ad hominem arguments and an unwillingness to even deal with the issues or questions presented.

    If your attitude is "If someone gets in my face and [truthfully] tells me why I am going to hell you can bet I will not see your "enlightened faith" I will see Satan's hate, spite and utter lack of understanding of Jesus' teachings", then you exhibit the attitude of an unrepentant sinner in need of the gospel.

    And the true gospel is NOT that God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. No, the truth is that all those who are unrepentant sinners are at enmity with God, and are in grave danger of eternal punishment.

    Man is totally depraved, able only to sin in his state apart from God. Nothing he can do will make him right with God. Only God can act to justify a sinner in his sight.

    Before the foundation of the world, God chose in the wisdom of his own divine counsel to elect to save some, for the praise and glory of his name.

    In order to save them, Christ died as a propitiation for their sins. The lost sheep of God had their sins atoned for them in the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary. Therefore "whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3.15,16)

    God calls all those who will be saved to himself so that his name will be praised among the nations. All those who are not called and do not believe will perish eternally.

    Those called are upheld by the grace and mercy of God, preserved unto salvation, never fearing that their salvation may be lost, for salvation is all of God and nothing of man.

    Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

    If you believe yourself a Christian, test your faith to see if it is true.

    1 Cor 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you——unless you believed in vain.

    Romans 9:33 As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."

    If you have heard the gospel truth and rejected it, then hope is lost.

    Heb 6.4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
    5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    So choose this day whom you will trust - your own nature and opinions, or the Son of God.
     
  19. Santa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>then you exhibit the attitude of an unrepentant sinner in need of the gospel. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Suppose you are correct, the fact is you still were not able to change his heart and so you failed him and you failed God. Our obligation as Chrsitians is not just to present God's message but to present it in a manner keeping with his compassion, understanding and unconditional love. Telling a life long Muslim he is going to hell if he doesn't convert is not a Godly method of teaching God's faith because it lacks the understanding that this Muslim has lived their entire life in that faith and are not likely to change it on a whim simply because some nut job tells them they must. If a weirdo in the airport wearing rainbow colored robes told you must convert to his cult or you will go to hell, would you do it? And yet you expect non-Christians to do just that when you throw the Bible and Jesus at them. It simply isn't realistic and I find it highly unlikely this is what God intends of us.
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    Santa -

    I hear you and know where you are coming from. The "in-your-face" witnessing, throwing a tract at someone or telling them out-of-the-blue that they need to repent of their Moslem faith and turn to Christ is a questionable method of witnessing.

    Some Baptists do that, offending needlessly, and turn people away from ever listening to the truth. Most of us, however, will share the truth of the Word of God in the spirit of love and concern, not trying to "rack up numbers of converts" ala Hyles, Finney, et al. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A person converted against his will
    Is of the same opinion still<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We need the good reminder to be careful to share the Truth in the "spirit of truth".
     

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