Justification from everlasting !

Not surprisingly, none of what you wrote here overthrows the fact that Paul wrote in Romans 4:5 that the believer's faith is accounted for righteousness.

 

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (KJV)

John 1:9 That [Jesus] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (KJV)

 

"we shall be saved...THROUGH HIM". By grace (shedding of Christ's blood) are you saved through faith (justification)

you have no business stating that free will is antichrist when you deny justification through faith, a major position of christendom...

 

Amen, brother! :applause:

 

Nope...a man's faith is accounted as righteousness because it is the means one is united to Christ (the object of one's faith) whose righteousness is then imputed (reckoned) to the believer.

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Cor 5:21

 

Once again, nothing you say here overthrows the Biblical truth (supported by numerous Scriptures) that the forensic declaration of "not guilty" by God, of imputing Christ righteousness to the believer, is to the one who has faith in Christ.

 

God's act as Judge of declaring sinners 'Not guilty' on the basis of Christ's objective meritorious work is only to those who are united to Christ by faith, as is demonstrated by dozens upon dozens of Scriptures (and I have mentioned nothing of the work of the Spirit in our sanctification, so your point here is a red herring). You continue to ignore or dismiss the numerous Scriptures that prove this, that justification is through faith--it is not subjectively applied to the sinner apart from it.

 

If justification is by faith, then whose faith is it?
When I was justified, made right in the sight of God, it was when I put my own faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I had the free will to do so.

 

Well, you could have fooled me. Up until this point you have basically ignored the verses I've cited which teach that justfication is through faith in order to defend your position that this justification is somehow already automatically true of the (allegedly unconditional) elect from eternity even before they have faith.

Regarding your accusation that I am "opposing the Truth of scripture with another Truth of scripture", that's not true at all. Neither I nor anyone else here (with whom you are 'debating') has denied that the meritorious ground of our justification is based objective Work of Christ; we've only affirmed the equal Scriptural truth that his justification is applied to the sinner by faith. However, this accusation actually applies to you in spades. Though you (finally) say that you accept those verses which affirm justification through faith, you fail to comprehend the implication these have on the validity of the argument you've been trying to make--that justification is from everlasting for the (allegedly unconditional) elect, even before they have faith. Though you may not have explicitly rejected justification by faith, you implicitly reject that in the very argument you have been making, for when you assert that justification is true for the elect "from everlasting" and apart from belief, then you effectively render nonsensical and meaningless the affirmation that justification is through faith. So in separating the two, and then nullifying the truth of justification by faith by asserting that justification actually occurs irrespective of faith, you are the one who opposes Scripture to Scripture, and in fact overthrows the plain meaning of Scripture by the tradition of man.

The Apostles, however, as I have already pointed out, affirm and hold together both the objective work of Christ as our ground for justification AND the subjective application of the Christ's atonement to the believer through faith. For example...

"whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith.." Romans 3:25. Here Paul clearly links the objective act ("propitiation by His blood") with the subjective point of application ("through faith"). He reinforces this in the next verse: "...that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ". (*Notice it does NOT say "...whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood to the elect apart from faith", NOR "...that He might be just and the justifier of the unconditionally elect irrespective of faith---NO SUCH STATEMENTS CAN BE FOUND IN SCRIPTURE*)

 

Paul did write that. He wrote it in Eph.2:8,9 and in Romans 4:1-5. Perhaps we will get into those verses later.

Romans 5:1 does not say "their own consciousness." You are adding to the Word of God. You are inserting your own pre-conceived ideas to fit into your theology because you can't reconcile this verse with others in the Bible.

His blood is how we are justified. Our faith is the means by which we are justified. You must take the entire Scripture into consideration not just your favorite hand picked verses.

Grace is how; faith is the means. Please learn.

Have you ever "done faith"? How? Faith is not something a person does. It is not a work. It is not something a person does. The Bible also commands us to hope. Have you ever "done hope"? What do you do when you hope? How many calories do you expend? what kind of work is it? Hope and faith are not works a person can do. Who pays you to hope and faith?

I see that you are one very confused person.
How do you reconcile John 3:36 with your position.
How do you know that God saw the blood Christ shed on your behalf? Maybe it was for some pigmy in Africa instead of you. How do you know it was shed for you? Are you a universalist? How do you know that you are one of the elect? Are you gnostic--have some special knowledge that Christ died especially for you? How do you know?

 

Your view in in contradiction with the Scriptures in your unwillingness and total inability to reconcile John 3:36 with the Scriptures that you post.

 

When you assert that justification can occur to the (allegedly) unconditional elect apart from faith, then you render justification through faith for this same elect superfluous and completely unnecessary--if they are already justified, how can they be further justified by faith? Therefore, like it or not, you are opposing justification by faith whether you admit to it or not. So once again, it is you who is making the word of God void by your own tradition.

And with this statement you just proved my point above. Any (alleged) justification before God apart from faith renders the Biblical teaching of justification through faith meaningless and nonsensical.

I'm sorry--where, pray tell, in this passage does it affirm that one is justified by grace apart from faith? Hmm?

Again, please show me in this verse where exactly Paul affirms that one is supposedly "justified freely by His grace apart from faith through the redemption that is Christ Jesus"? The answer is...NOWHERE! In fact just two verses down (v26), Paul clearly affirms that God justifies "the one who has faith in Jesus." (*And I'll remind you again that in verse 25, Paul states God set forth Christ "as a propitiation by His blood, through faith", not apart from faith*)

This has no bearing on your argument. Of course salvation by grace through faith is given to us undeservedly.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Seriously, with all due respect, you really need to quit with this whole line of argumentation before you embarrass yourself anymore.