KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Claudia_T, Apr 30, 2006.

  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Here's a little "short study" I just now put together on the 10 Commandment Law of God still being applicable today for New Testament Christians.

    For those who would argue that the 10 Commandment Law of God and the Sabbath is not applicable today ... I would say that they should study these Bible passages:


    Here we can clearly see that loving our neighbor (the Law) isnt an OPTION as far as gaining etrnal life goes...

    1Jn:3:
    14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
    15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


    Rom:13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


    James 2:
    8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
    9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


    Matthew 5:
    17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Then of course Jesus goes into telling us that the La of God says Thou shalt not kill but we must not even hate our neighbor...

    the Law of God says Thou shalt not commit adultery but we shouldnt even THINK of it in our minds...

    and so on... Therefore was the Old Testament Bible prophecy concerning Jesus:


    Isa:42:21: The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIGY THE LAW, and make it honourable .


    Jesus is telling us, NO He didnt come do take away the Law but to show us how to actually really sincerely KEEP the Law.

    The religious leaders in His day outwardly pretended to keep the law while secretly plotting to murder Jesus.


    They pretended outwardly to keep the Sabbath but they wouldnt even help someone who needed help on the Sabbath. Jesus healed people on the Sabbath and they balked at that.

    Jesus came to show us the Father and His love. He came to show us the foundation of the 10 commandments is LOVE... done with any other motivation isnt valid Christianity.

    He didnt come to oblitrate the Law but to fulfill it in His own life, giving us an example that we should follow.


    So you see then that love to God and neighbor is merely a SUMMARY of or is briefly comprehended in the Ten Commandment Law. And not only that but both Jesus and Paul were merely reiterating what had already been declared in old Testament times! Watch this:

    "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4,5.


    "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18.



    Sound familiar? Jesus was merely quoting directly out of the old testament when He said Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    God's claims have always been the same. Jesus did not really give us a "new" commandment to keep, He was bringing to light the foundation principles of love which have always underlined the ten commandments of old. This is why John said the following words:

    "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning ." I John 2:3-7. The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:17.


    Like the Bible verse says, if we love not our brethren, we DO NOT have eternal life abiding in us. Thats pretty simple isnt it?

    "If you LOVE ME, keep My commandments" said Jesus..

    1Cor:2:9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that LOVE him .


    Claudia

    [ April 30, 2006, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  2. SpiritualMadMan

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    Galatians Chapter Three...

    Ephesians Chapter Two...

    No further discussion...
     
  3. Jarthur001

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    Hi Claudia,

    It would seem that you need a lesson in Grace in your short study.


    Claudia said....
    For those who would argue that the 10 Commandment Law of God and the Sabbath is not applicable today ... I would say that they should study these Bible passages.

    James..
    These passages only or the whole word of God? I can prove anything I want by pulling verses all of context and reading them only while casting the others away. Lets study the whole Bible on this subject, what do you say?

    **************************

    Claudia said....
    Here we can clearly see that loving our neighbor (the Law) isnt an OPTION as far as gaining etrnal life goes...

    1Jn:3:
    14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
    15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

    James...
    1st, this is not the Law as in (The ten Words of God, better known as the 10 Commandments). The Law said..thou shall not KILL. Killing is a work...a action of doing. This passage is saying that a action or work is not needed to be in guilt, but if you only hate your brother it is the same as murder. This goes beyond the Law.
    *************************


    Claudia said....
    Rom:13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


    James..
    Here we see a mislead in action. Why stop at verse 9? what does the next verse say?

    9For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

    10Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law

    Aawwww there you go. Now it all comes together. The commandments are done in LOVE...not because we have to. We go to church to worship God in LOVE, not because we must. God wants us to love Him. We do not lie, for God is all truth and we LOVE him and will not lie.

    Now...here is one for you. What two commandments can we hang ALL the Law?
    ******************

    Claudia said....
    James 2:
    8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
    9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


    James...
    This is showing that all our works are the same. Ok..let me show you. You think a good work is keeping the Sabbath...right? Lets say that is ture.

    Do you feel you are doing the right thing by keeping the Sabbath? If you do, then you must think those that do not keep the Sabbath are not in Gods will. If we are not in Gods will, we are in sin. Your good work of keeping a day...in your our eyes and mine..places you in Gods will, where others are in sin. You bring glory in your works with this thinking...to YOU...yes YOU....all glory is in YOU and others that think as you...and your view brings a sinful heart to others who do not.

    This is called pride. This is not to pick on you, but rather to show good works bring the sin of pride.

    If i go to church one time..this is good. If I go to church 2 times.. if one time is good..2 times is better. If i got to church every sunday and go to bible study each day of the week...this MUST be good...no make that GREAT. If i see you only going every other sunday...i may think i'm better then you...for my good works always brings pride.

    But why should we go to church? because we love God. Then its not a work...for we would have it no other way. Works makes us look at others and say..."YOU NEED TO KEEP THE SABBATH JUST LIKE ME!!!!" Love says...i love you dear God, and I can't wait to get back to your house to worship you. Love is not a work.

    So..back to your passage. James is saying..if you say...LOOK AT ME...i keep this part of the LAW...look how good i am. If you live this way...james is saying...just because you keep one law means nothing. Just because you keep the sabbath means nothing...if you have pride. For all the law is together. So...if you lie..you break the law. if you have pride..you break the law...just as not keeping the sabbath.

    Now..i do not hold to keeping the sabbath...but that is another subject.
    *********************


    Claudia said....
    Matthew 5:
    17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


    James...

    INDEED. And HOW are we to EXCEED the law of righteousness? In Gods grace..not in works....Romans 4

    I'll be back later..

    In Christ..James
     
  4. Claudia_T

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    Unfortunately many Christians wrongly interpret the book of Galatians and Romans also, to fit into their preconceived notion that the Law of God was done away with.

    Please take time to actually READ this:


    GALATIANS CHAPTER 3


    The Glad Tidings
    by E. J. Waggoner
    http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT04RedeemedfromtheCurse.htm

    [ May 06, 2006, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
  5. Claudia_T

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    1891 General Conference Sermons
    By E.J. Waggoner

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Study Number 11, Romans Chapter 7
    -------------------------------------------------

    http://www.nisbett.com/righteousness/sermons/1891/1891gc11.htm

    [ May 06, 2006, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
  6. steaver

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    Claudia, the last two post are ridiculusly long! You can't have a discussion like this. Try just arguing against the points made.

    God Bless!
     
  7. Claudia_T

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  8. JackRUS

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    I would suggest that the next time that you are thinking about a long cut & paste job that you just give us the link you copied from instead.

    This isn't my site, but I sure that their server space is limited.

    And if you think that you are saved by faith in Christ and your keeping of the Commandments, you are lost still. Gal. 5:4,9

    Besides, Scripture is quite clear that no one can keep the Commandmenst to God's satisfaction (Mt. 5:48; 19:26; Rom. 3:20-28, etc.) in order to either establish, or maintain their own righteousness. Romans 4, Phil. 3:9, Gal. 2:16, and 2 Cor. 5:21 are plain on the only way toward that righteousness.

    That being said, we are required to keep the Commandments by the power of the Holy Spirit because it pleases God to obey Him, but God knows we will fail somewhat (1 John 1:8-10), and Christ the Advocate interceeds in our behalf when we do. 1 John 2:1

    The keeping of the Commandments does not mean to perfection, but we love light, and the lost love darkness (John 3:19-21) and they have no desire to keep any of the Commandments. If we could keep the Commandments, which Christ said was impossible in Mt. 19:26, then Jesus would not have had to die for us on the cross, not would we need Him as an Advocate after being saved.

    I suggest that you read Romans 3:10-28 and let it sink in and grow thereby yourself.
     
  9. SpyHunter

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    Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the Law. But what does that mean?

    Colossians 2:6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him,
    7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
    8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
    9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
    10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
    11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
    12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
    13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
    14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
    15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
    16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
    17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
    18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
    19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
    20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations--
    21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch"
    22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)--according to human precepts and teachings?
    23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

    I believe that puts Ellen White in her proper place.

    Romans 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
    23 But, the one doubting, if he eats, he has been condemned, because it is not of faith; and all that is not of faith is sin.

    Put aside your physical religion and embrace the metaphysical blessings and fruits of the Spirit-- against such there is no law. [​IMG]

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  10. SpyHunter

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    Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the Law. But what does that mean?

    Colossians 2:6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him,
    7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
    8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
    9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
    10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
    11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
    12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
    13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
    14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
    15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
    16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
    17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
    18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
    19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
    20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations--
    21 "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch"
    22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)--according to human precepts and teachings?
    23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

    I believe that puts Ellen White in her proper place.

    Romans 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
    23 But, the one doubting, if he eats, he has been condemned, because it is not of faith; and all that is not of faith is sin.

    Put aside your physical religion and embrace the metaphysical blessings and fruits of the Spirit-- against such there is no law. [​IMG]

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  11. Jarthur001

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    Oh Bothers

    Claudia your last three post shows a unwilling heart to debate, but rather childish display of delusion. Your post as of late have been nothing but SDA dogma, and when faced with the truth you do not debate but rather run to your collection of printed manuscrips which hold your persistent false belief. For this is where your evidence lies. You have shown over and over your console of truth is not in Gods Holy Word, but in the doctrine of your church and its many books. You do this while at the same time you jump all over the RCC for holding to extra truths other then what is found in the Bible.

    While it is fine to gain understanding from others, if in the end we cannot reach the same support from the scripture, our argument must be seen for what it is and that being false. No dispute of doctrine can be higher then the true source. Your true source it is clear is none other then the SDA church.

    Fine, you stand on that if you wish. I hold to the truth. My truth is in Gods Word.

    In Christ...James
     
  12. Jarthur001

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    I should add...

    To flood us with this delusion does not support your claims, but shows your lack of understanding.
     
  13. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    I do know this. If we are truly saved, and are HIS own, we will be led by the Spirit of God to obey the commandments(10).

    We are saved by grace, there is no question. We also will be led by the Spirit to not murder, not kill, not lust, etc.

    It's not a matter of have to, it's a matter of want to.

    I can do any thing I want to do. But since I accepted Jesus, I no longer want to sin. I WANT to follow Jesus!!
    :rolleyes:
    So here's thumbs up for Claudia. I did not read all the post, but I pretty much know what she believes, and that is closer to the truth than some others. :D

    Praise God!!

    1st John 4-20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
    21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


    Selah,

    Tam
     
  14. Jarthur001

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    Hi tamborine lady,

    It is good to meet you.

    TL says.....
    I do know this. If we are truly saved, and are HIS own, we will be led by the Spirit of God to obey the commandments(10).

    James...
    I would say...if we love him...why would we not want to keep His commandments? It may seem the same as your statment..but it is not.

    ****************
    TL says...
    We are saved by grace, there is no question. We also will be led by the Spirit to not murder, not kill, not lust, etc.

    James...
    Some hate the word grace. They keep the commandments for they fear they MUST. This is not Grace.
    ******************

    TL..
    It's not a matter of have to, it's a matter of want to.


    I can do any thing I want to do. But since I accepted Jesus, I no longer want to sin. I WANT to follow Jesus!!
    :rolleyes:


    James...
    I agree
    ***********
    TL....
    So here's thumbs up for Claudia. I did not read all the post, but I pretty much know what she believes, and that is closer to the truth than some others.

    James...

    SDA say WE MUST KEEP THE LAW. not as you claim above. You see...they think works is part of salvation, not what we now WANT to do out of love. Notice they never talk of grace..for they do not understand it. Many HATE the word. We use to have one guy on here that wished to remove the word. Grace is salvation, not works. Works is part of our walk with Him.

    For you to agree with her are you saying you trust in our works or in Gods grace?


    In Christ...James
     
  15. SpiritualMadMan

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    IMHO, Claudia is quoting from Seventh Day Adventist Literature not from her own personal understanding of Scripture...

    I am now joining millions of Christians World Wide that believe the ADVENTISTS ARE A CULT...

    Judiaizers all...

    No, I think I understand Paul quite well, thank you very much...

    And, to belabor the point whne many have agreed with Claudia that when you live for Jesus your "Want Tos" change...

    Only proves my point of Judaizer...
     
  16. Claudia_T

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    LOL all I can do is just laugh at some of the stuff you guys say [​IMG]
     
  17. Claudia_T

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    Every time you turn around now you have to mention Ellen White and throw "cult" in there every time you get a chance. Its truly pathetic. I have completely lost any respect I had for any of you.

    [ May 06, 2006, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
  18. Claudia_T

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    When you all can start acting like decent human beings then I will talk to ya...till then, ferget it!

    All I did was post some stuff aleady written for you to read and think about and get a conversation started..

    but as usual, you all had to start in on your pathetic new little game of "Ellen White/Cult"

    I cant hardly have a serious conversation.

    [ May 06, 2006, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]
     
  19. nate

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    BTW the only ten commandment law not repeated in the NT is to remember the Sabbath.

    "Keep the Law is not an OPTION!" [​IMG] [​IMG] :rolleyes:
     
  20. nate

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    You treat the RCC the same way as many are treating SDA. You say they shouldn't bring up Ellen White but when a conversation starts about the RCC you use the pope card over, over, over, and over again. So until you stop being a hypocrite don't try and tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do.
     

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