Keeping the Saturday Sabbath.

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ben W, Nov 1, 2002.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    The Original Church the Early Church met on a Saturday for teaching much the same as the Jews who met in the Synagogue. The Catholic Pope ordered that the Sabbath was to be changed in the Third century. He did this because Christianity had become the state religion and he had to accomodate the millions of Sun-Worshippers into the new religious structure. The Vatican state that the Pope is the head of the church and has the right to change the Sabbath as he sees fit. Because of the Popes descion all of the churches are required to keep the Doctrine of a Law based Sunday Sabbath. Yet Paul states in Colossians 2:16 "Let no one judge you in food or in drink or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths" How many churches are requiring their membership to keep the Sunday Sabbath as a law?

    The early church met on the Jewish sabbath in the same way as the jews who met for teaching in the Synagogue. Acts 13:42-44 "So when the Jews went out of the Synagogue the Gentiles begged them that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout Proselytes followed Paul and Barnabus, who speaking to them persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of god". Here is an example of the church teaching the Gentiles on the Jewish Sabbath. They certainley fellowshipped throughout the week on any day, but Saturday was set aside as the special day for teaching.

    The Saturday Churches of today are one of the most mis-understood parts of the body of Christ. We are accused of being into a Law based religion when we simply want to be like the early church. If you are interested in the idea of Satuday Church, check out www.seventhdaybaptist.org
     
  2. ChristianCynic

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    Yet Paul states in Colossians 2:16 "Let no one judge you in food or in drink or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths" How many churches are requiring their membership to keep the Sunday Sabbath as a law?

    I don't know; I've never counted them. There definitely are churches-- and I suspect you may be part of one-- that "are requiring their membership to keep" the 7th day as a law. I do not regard any day as one in which a fire cannot be lit or a chair cannot be moved. Let each one be convinced in his own mind (Romans 14:5).
     
  3. KenH

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    There was no such thing as "the pope" in the third century(201-300 A.D.). Constantine did not take over what was left of the Roman Empire until the fourth century. It then took a while before the office of the papacy as we know it came into existence.

    I believe God changed the day of worship to the first day of the week as it was the day of Jesus' resurrection from the dead. This is an issue like drinking alcoholic beverages, etc., where lots of heat can be generated with very little, if any, spiritual profit.

    [ November 01, 2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  4. JIMNSC

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  5. suzanne

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    So what if I agree with Saturday as Sabbath and there are no churches around the area who hold to that? What am I supposed to do, find a Seventh Day Adventist Church? Or is it acceptable to have a heart attitude of rest and restoration even though your church chooses to worship on a Sunday?

    suzanne
     
  6. Headcoveredlady

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    Suzanne,
    I know of some families who take the Sabbath rest and worship and still attend church on Sunday but return to their normal work. My family is considering this as well. My husband is convicted that Saturday is still the Sabbath. No where in Scripture was the Sabbath ever changed. This will require lots of changes for us.

    HCL
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    Paul made two statements of extreme importance for this discussion. First, he said that Christ was the end of the Law for righteousness to those who believe. If Christ was the end of the Law, why do you insist on slavish observance of it? Second Paul said that the one who keeps part of the Law is obligated to keep the whole Law (Gal 5). Yet I hardly presume that you are stoning your children for disrespect as I read in the Law this morning. Most people wear clothing of mixed fabrics as is forbidden by the Law. In other words, you don't really believe you should keep the Law anyway. The Law was the civil constitution of Isreal as a nation (Exo 19). It was not intended to be kept those who are not a part of that nation.

    The Sabbath was never changed to be sure. But we are not Jews and therefore the Law has no authority over us.
     
  8. suzanne

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    You're correct, Sabbath hasn't been changed. In fact our Sabbath is Sat. My questions have to do with those who would strive with others about this. There are many things in scripture that Christians ignore or explain away, but until the Holy Spirit convicts them, they have blinders on. This does not mean we don't take time to explain the reason for our conviction, I have seen condemnation come through this and a self-righteousness that makes others feel inferior because they worship on Sun. (This doen't mean you, personally, because I don't know you.)
     
  9. suzanne

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    Christ said he came to uphold the Law. He came to do away with the man-made traditions and burdens that the priests had put upon the people. His summation of the ten commandments speaks of his upholding them, not doing away with them.

    As a Gentile you are grafted into the Jewish people's faith through the Messiah. The early church did not become as Gentiles, the Gentiles worshiped with the Jewish people.
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    No. He said he came to fulfill the Law and Paul said that Christ was the end of the Law and further that we are no longer under the Law. Why do you disagree with that?

    Again, No, the Christian faith is, in many ways, different than the Jewish faith of the OT. All one needs to do is read the OT and NT to see the difference. In the church, Jewish distinction were put aside (cf. Gal 2 and Peter's problem). There were many who tried to make the early church live as Jews and they were soundly reprimanded by the apostles for such. In line with Scripture, you should not try to make the church live under the Jewish Law.

    However, I noticed that you did not respond to my point about keeping the Law. Do you keep the whole Law or just the parts that you feel are important?
     
  11. Daniel David

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    There is that tricky passage in Hebrews 4 that tells us to enter into God's rest.
     
  12. Johnv

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    I think the idea of rasting on the Saturday instead of Sunday is an honorable one. However, since Paul makes it clear that we should not be judged on the feast days and sabbath we keep, I'd venture that there's nothing wrong with keeping it on Sunday as well.

    What's of greater concern is those who do not keep a Sabbath at all. God designed us to require at least one day of rest a week. We owe ourselves and God at least that much.
     
  13. Johnv

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    As a Gentile you are grafted into the Jewish people's faith through the Messiah. The early church did not become as Gentiles, the Gentiles worshiped with the Jewish people.

    Peter and Paul argued this point to death, and often were at odds. To keep kosher diets or not? To circumcise our male children or not? To celebrate the Passover or not? To keep the Ten Commandments or not? To keep the Sabbath or not?
     
  14. JIMNSC

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    Pastor Larry: We should keep the whole of God’s law, but not all the little additions man put into the ceremonial law – which was a Jewish thing, by the way.

    Have you ever noticed that the vast majority of the things debated in the New Testament are things Paul said? I know he was a learned man but it must have been the way he spoke, wrote, or was translated that causes misunderstanding now.

    On your point where Paul said Christ was the “end” of the law…… end comes from the Greek word telos (te’los) that in fact means “end.” However, it also means “uttermost” among other words. The scripture is inspired but were the translators’ translations of every word? Different Bible versions use different translations of words – hence – the difference in the translations. I personally prefer the KJV because of its age, but that’s another post.

    So in that context we now have “Christ is the uttermost of the law” which would mean Christ is the “goal” of the law and not necessarily the termination of it.

    Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
    Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

    Prior to Jesus’ time and John’s preaching, the Old Testament law was taught but it changed due to Jesus; however, that law is still valid according to verse 17.

    And, the Sabbath was not made for the Jews – it was made for man. God didn’t say let us make the Jews in our image – He said let us make MAN in our image. “Thou shalt not kill” is not a Jewish law. It is valid for all men today. We shouldn’t single out the fourth commandment and say it was meant for the Jews because again, there were no Jews when God rested the seventh day.

    Excellent point Suzanne you made concerning the Jews and the Gentiles.

    The prophet Isaiah made reference in Is. 66:18 to the Lord gathering “all” nations and tongues (just to give you the context of this passage of scripture)……..

    22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    “I will make” is future and yet to come unless you are a Preterist and think all prophecy has already been fulfilled. In summary, the seventh day sabbath was applicable on the seventh day after creation, Jesus observed it and so did Paul. Here’s Isaiah prophesying that we are going to observe it in the new heavens and the new earth.

    So again, who authorized mortal man to change one of God’s laws in the interim?

    In Christ - Jim
     
  15. JIMNSC

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    Two more things and I'll hush (and everybody said, "Amen!"). If there was a Seventh Day Baptist Church within reasonable driving distance for me, I'd do my best to be a part of it!

    Whenever there's disagreement, somebody is wrong. Let's look at the consequences for either side being wrong here:

    If I am wrong and observe the seventh day sabbath, what will the consequences be? ;)

    If you think the sabbath no longer applies to us (for whatever reason), what will the consequences be if you're wrong? [​IMG]

    I have officially hushed!! Jim
     
  16. KenH

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    If the seventh day is correct, the consequences for those that observe the first day would be the same as they would be for those who wrongly observe the seventh day if the first day is correct.

    Ken
     
  17. Helen

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    The Jewish Sabbath is not always Saturday! There are double Sabbaths, week Sabbaths, etc.

    Also, unless anyone can show that God started creation on a Sunday, then the Saturday Sabbath is simply tradition.

    The Ten Commandments say to work six days and rest one. They do not say which day is which.

    Because I have a profoundly retarded 18 year old son who forbids rest for me when he is home, which is always on weekends, I tend to take a Sabbath rest on Thursdays. The week's work is pretty much wrapped up and the weekend I can prepare for on Friday. And I certainly DO work six days!
     
  18. Ben W

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    The idea of the Saturday Sabbath discussion is not meant to be a "Law Based" discussion. I have certainley quoted an earlier instance where Paul talks about not being judged by keeping Sabbaths.
    The point that I am driving at is that the early church did keep the Saturday Sabbath. The Vatican claim they had the authority to change it and did so. My encouragement to everyone here is to try to get back to the early church model in our own lives. We have become distorted. Yes the Catholic church added several other doctrinal extras as well as the Sabbath change. More recently the church is being pushed to accept the Word of Faith Movement and the Prosperity Gospel. We need to get rid of the man made "Extras" and get back to the early church which God had in mind.

    I would enncourage any one reading this forum to go and have a look at the Seventh Day Baptist webpage listed in my original post. You will find an evangelical church that considers themselves a part of the larger body of Christ. If their is not a congregation near you, they will help you start one. They are serious about revival. I have found them really helpfull and am planting a fellowship myself and having alot of fun. [​IMG]
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    So you stone your children when they talk back to you? You don't wear clothes made of mixed material? You stone adulterers? ... Or do you not follow the Law??

    Furthermore, you didn't deal with the text. The meaning of Rom 10:4 does not hinge on the meaning of telos. Gal 3 and 5 certainly are not answered by your attempt.

    The vast majority of things debated in teh NT are not "things which Paul said" per se but rather things which cause confusion for some. I suggest that we let the text say what it does. The Law is not for the NT Christian. That is the uniform testimony of Scripture.
     
  20. Zebedee

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    I go to church on Sunday because Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday to deliver me from the bondage of the mosaic law.
     

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