KJV denies the doctrine of hell

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pastor Larry, Sep 10, 2003.

  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    In a stunning and heartbreaking discovery this morning, I found that the KJV deletes the doctrine of hellfire from the Holy Scriptures. In Jonah 2:2, Jonah cries out that he has been delivered from the belly of hell. It is clear from the context that Jonah was in the ocean, which has no fire. So it is clear that the KJV perverts the doctrine that hell is fire and replaces it with teh heresy that hell is water.

    This teaching should raise the hackles of everyone who uses the KJV. It should lead us to bring all of our KJV to a big bonfire and burn them ... or drown them perhaps ...

    We should not allow this doctrine of hell to be perverted by the KJV translators. It leads people to think that hell is a day at the beach rather than a literal burning fire
     
  2. Gunther

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    R.C. Sproul?
     
  3. swordsman

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  4. RaptureReady

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    [ September 10, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  5. RaptureReady

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  6. Ransom

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    God has enough forgiveness even for KJV-onlyists.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [ September 10, 2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    ATTACK? Methinks you flatter yourself.

    I took this as simply a parody of the continual REAL attacks of the KJVonlies on the Word of God and its various English translations. It ridicules the sect and shows the deplorable falacies of the argument.

    And I had to "snip" a couple of personal attacks (and Ransom's quotation of that, sorry Scott) that will not be allowed. THOSE are real attacks.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    Bob is right. This is a very simple parody that illustrates the fallacy of the KJVOs arguments on two levels.

    First, it shows that a single verse with a different translation of a given word does not deny or change the rest of the biblical evidence. In Jonah 2:2, the translation of hte word "Sheol" as "hell" when referring to the brink of death does not change the fact that hell does have real fire instead of real water. In the same way, a simple difference of translation between an MV and the KJV does not mean that the MV changes doctrine, just as that simple difference in Jonah 2:2 does not mean that the KJV changed doctrine.

    Second, it shows that the method of the KJVOnlyists can be used against their own position. KJVOs are fond of picking out particular places where a translation is different or where a textual variant has been followed. They then claim that said difference equals a perverting of God's word and a denial of doctrine. Here, we see that the same standard can be applied to the KJV and that we see the KJV has "perverted" doctrine in the same way that the MVs are charged with. In other words, this simply illustrates the the KJVOs have a double standard.

    As for attacking the KJB, I did no such thing since the KJB is a figment of someone's imagination. The KJV however is a real thing, the word of God. But even at that, my "attack" on the KJV was a parody, intended to show the foolishness of certain types of argumentation.

    Homebound responds that "No one in their right mind would believe that." But people such as yourself certainly have, believing identical charges against MVs that are even more ridiculous than this one. What I did was merely point out a flaw in your argumentation and in your standard. No one in their right mind should believe this ... just as no one in their right mind should believe the charges that MVs attack the deity of Christ, the doctrine of hell, the blood of Christ, or some other doctrine. That is pure nonsense, just as my example above is. But we are not the ones believing it ... you are ...
     
  9. Askjo

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    Attack the KJV against the doctrine of Hell without fire? What's the picture between Jonah and Jesus reflecting a word, "hell"?
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    Did you have a question?? This doesn't seem to make sense at all ...
     
  11. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Simple is right;it is about as funny as a stomach pump.

    No,the Whale was in the ocean;Jonah was in the whale's belly.


    As for trying to be funny,dont quit your day job just yet [​IMG]
     
  12. Baptist in Richmond

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    Anti-Alexandrian said:
    True: you know what they say about the mind that understands satire....
     
  13. Jim1999

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    A whale is anatomically inadequate to swallow a man. It was a great fish prepared by God.....and does it matter the nature of hell's fire? It is only a concept,,a place separated from God. We don't know the exact nature of that place prepared by God for the devil and those who continue in unbelief.

    So often it appears that you blokes just love to argue.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you Brother Pastor Larry.
    I need my daily dose of SARCASM [​IMG]
    It is the only remedy to
    overcome my IRONy poor blood [​IMG]
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    Simple is right;it is about as funny as a stomach pump. </font>[/QUOTE]There is nothing funny about it. It was not intended to be all that funny. It was intended to illustrate that people like yourself are unwilling to be honest with teh truth and apply the same standard to one translation that you do to others. It is indeed very sad ... I wish it were different.

    No,the Whale was in the ocean;Jonah was in the whale's belly.</font>[/QUOTE]If you read chapter 2, you will see that Jonah was in the ocean until the fish swallowed him. When they threw him overboard, he was in teh ocean. This is pretty simple; I am surprised that you missed it.

    Wasn't trying to be funny. A parody is not always humorous. It often illustrates the foolishness of a particular view, such as it has here.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    God, in his word, describes hell as fire, a place of eternal conscious torment. So we do know the exact nature of the place that God has prepared.

    Is it important? Only if you think God's word is important. My point here was not to address that however. My point was to show that certain people are dishonest and inconsistent in their attacks on God's word. My point was to illustrate the foolishness of their position by showing how their logic and thinking (if such it can be called) condemns even their own stand.
     
  17. Gayla

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    This whole section of the Board is a never ending discission, ain't it??? :D [​IMG]
     
  18. Lacy Evans

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    Just a thought, (get the tomatoes ready)

    Does anyone else but me not think that it is possible that a man swallowed by a (specially prepared) whale might have drowned? Water often causes that you know! Might Jonah's soul have taken a trip to literal hell (Abraham's bosom, perhaps-like Lazarus) while his body was in the ocean? My position would have to assume that because I take the Word literally first. (as opposed to running to my Strongs or a MV every time something doesn't make sense.) Another example of why no KJVOer can prove a "doctrine that is not in any other version". It is assumed that Hell is wrong before it is tested and the "Word" has to bow to us!

    Lacy
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    Since you take the Word literally (as opposed to those of us who don't -- more on that in a second), show us from the literal text where Jonah literally died. (Hint: It isn't there.). The text literally indicates that Jonah was alive.

    I take the text very literally, although "normally" is a better word for it. The text does not say "hell" and it is most definitely not the best translation. This is not an issue of being literal or not. It is an issue of what the text actually says.

    I didn't go running off to Strongs or a MV for this. I found it while tranlsating from the language Jonah wrote in and God inspired in. That language says "sheol," not "hell." When I compared it to the KJV, I was surprised to see the teaching that water is actually fire, since Jonah "went down" to it in addition to the teaching that believers go to hell.

    I didn't assume that "hell" was wrong. I translated the passage and then found that the KJV had this strange understanding of it. The "word" didn't bow to me. I bowed to the "word" and as a result, I found the KJV had a bad translation here. Here is a case where having a greater understanding would show that the KJV had an unfortunate and misleading translation.

    BTW, the reason why "no KJVOer can prove a doctrine that is not in any other Bible" is because all the doctrines are in other translations. IT has nothing to do with assumptions.
     
  20. The Harvest

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    Why do you say "we don't know..."? Don't include everyone in that ridiculous statement. Those of us who have a Bible and read it know the nature of hell's fire. And those of us who have a Bible and read it also know the nature of the place prepared by God for the devil and his angels. You can't even get the quote right.

    Jim you need to stop wasting so much time on this BB and find yourself a Bible and study that thing man.
     

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