Knowing God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. - John 17:3


    Satan and all the demons know who is the true God and Jesus Christ and tremble. Do they possess eternal life?

    Jesus asserted he "NEVER" knew those in Matthew 7:21-23?

    How is it that knowing in the sense indicated above "IS" eternal life?

    No one can deny that intellletual knowledge is involved but is that the entire meaning of "know" above?

    How is this knowledge obtained? Through cognitive exercise of the brain or is the cognitive exerise of the brain a consequence rather than the cause - Mt. 16:17?

    How is "eternal life" here opposte to "death" in regard to knowledge - Eph. 4:18?

    Yes, I am asking these questions rhetorically.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2013
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  2. evangelist-7

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    The NT "knowing" refers to a personal intimate relationship with the Father and the Son.

    And this relationship results in loving God enough to be obedient to His commands.
    This is being a disciple, as opposed to just being a believer.
    Not all BACs end up being disciples ... their free will is involved.
    The Holy Spirit can do only so much ... their free will is involved.

    The NT Scriptures are clear ...
    BACs must be willing to be co-operative in being sanctified unto holiness,
    without which they will not see the Lord.

    Jesus insists on perfection also ... this being mature, etc. is similar to the required holiness.
    It is all about overcoming sin in the lives of BACs.
    BACs who have no sin in their lives, are regarded as being holy in God's sight.

    .
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    The word "know" is used for a personal intimate relationship as Adam "knew" Eve in sexual intimacy and a child was the product. I agree with that ASPECT of knowing God but there is much much more that you have not touched upon that is essential for this intimate relationship to exist and what it actual consists.

    For example, in the PHYSICAL intimacy between Adam and Eve it was inseparable from a PHYSICAL union between Adam and Eve. Furthermore, this consisted in a union of the same nature or else there could not be any fruit of the womb. Make the leap from Physical to Spiritual and you now have begun only to scratch the surface of what it means to "know" God - there is much much more.

    Try answering the other questions I asked. For example the issue of Matthew 16:17. Also consider for example, 1 Cor. 2:14 and Romans 8:7 when considering the unregenerated state described in Ephesians 4:18; in contrast to the regenerated state in Eph. 2:1-3; 4:24; Col. 3:10 in regard to "understanding" and "knowledge" in relationship to God.
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2013
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  4. The Biblicist

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    Ok, I will make the transition from the physical to the spiritual for you.

    1. Human nature can only unite with human nature to produce a human child.

    2. God cannot unite with a sinful nature to produce spiritual fruit - hence regeneration - new heart, new creation is an essential prerequisite to knowing God in this sense. What is born of Spirit is spirit. God must create within man a sanctuary that is free from all defilement as God cannot coexist with sin - hence the inward man created in "righteousness and true holiness" and thus His Spirit bears witness with our spirit because they have the same spiritual nature - "righteousness and true holiness."

    3. This impartation of the divine nature within man is not God or Christ or the Holy Spirit but is a "new creature" and the Trinue God is not created. It is part of our nature as much as what we received in the first birth.

    4 We can no more rid ourselves of this new nature by second birth any more than we can rid ourself of our old nature by first birth. Indeed, even more so, as the first was a product of human generation but the second is a product of divine generation. So it is part of your present nature - it is YOU and you do not have any power to remove what you did not produce by either birth - physical or spiritual. However, it is not ALL of you but only that aspect which has been born of the Spirit. For example your body has not been born of God and that is why it is the sphere where the indwelling "law of sin" operates through. You could live above sin always without struggle if sin had no hold IN YOUR NATURE. This distinction is made by Paul in Romans 7:18 where he distinguishes within his human nature where sin originates and where it does not originate from.

    Spiritual growth IS a process whereby the new nature is gaining more control in our life. However, the process in this life is endless as there are multitude of different compartments in our lives where this growth varies and some where it has not even begun to be stronger. For example, Abraham was strong in faith in some areas but had a weakness of lying, and for women. Polygomy was never approved by God as the institution of marriage spole of only TWAIN not three or more. Would you claim a polygamist today was a Christian? The custom was not Biblically based but a violation of God's law of marriage.
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2013
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  5. The Biblicist

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    Being quickened by the Spirit is performed upon a certain aspect of human nature. Your body is not that aspect. The bible says it is your "spirit" - Jn. 3:6.

    The spiritual or immaterial aspect of human nature is inseparable in the sense of substance - spirit - but not in the sense of function. The Bible make a distinction of function betwen the spirit and soul. Just as in the nature of God. God inseparable in the sense of substance which is spirit but there is a clear distinction of function between the Holy Spirit and the Father although both share the same substance.

    Regeneration of the Spirit is a negative and postive work of the Holy Spirit. Negatively it is a restoration that involves cleansing of the defilement of sin (Tit. 3:5). The spirit of the unregenerated man was the throne room of demons prior to regeneration (Eph. 2:2) and is washed and cleansed of that defilement. That means the "law of sin" is removed entirely from that aspect of your human nature into the outer court of the body (Rom. 7:18) forever with no possibility of entering into that domain of your nature again as that aspect of your human nature is where the "seed" of God reigns supreme as it has been possessed as God's domain. Positively it is giving of, or creating of a "new" heart or restoration of the moral image of God (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) in "righteousness and true holiness" as it consists of bringing the human spirit into union, or direct fusion with the Spirit of God. This union is spiritual life without which there can only be death. Thus he that believeth on Christ "shall never die" (Jn. 11:28) as his spirit is in union with God's Spirit who is Life.

    To "know" God in the sense of John 17:2 involves this entire work which becomes known to the soul of man by direct inner revelation (mt. 18:17; Gal. 1:15-16) which is experienced as God speaks into existence (James 1:18; 2 Cor. 4:6) this new creature in direct connection with the preaching of the gospel (Rom. 10:17; 1 Thes. 1:4-5; 1 Pet. 1:25; 2 Thes. 2:13-14). Thus it involves EXPERIENTIAL knowledge that comes by direct revelation to your soul whereby one can say "I KNOW WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED and am pursuaded.) This direct revelatory knowledge is expressed by the mouth as justifying faith which expresses the internal pursausion coming directly from the new heart that is intimate union with the Spirit of Christ so that "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness."
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Jun 22, 2013
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