Koinonia retreat

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by webdog, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been invited to attend a weekend Koinonia retreat at the local camp. Has anybody been through the Koinonia weekend, or can share what it all entails? From ColoradoKoinonia.com (I'm in Ohio, btw) it states the following...

    "The Koinonia system uses, as its fundamental concept, the sharing of
    Christian love between individuals, that is, Christ was concerned with
    the world about Him, and that as Christians, we should follow His
    example. Koinonia, therefore, differs from other experiential methods
    which are based primarily on personal salvation or charismatic
    experience. No position on these various methods is taken during the
    weekend. Rather it is the acceptance that Christ lives through others
    that is stressed. In spreading His love through our actions, the
    eventuality of "one man - one word - one God" will be realized."


    and...
    [SIZE=-1]Colorado Koinonia is a multi-denominational community that through prayer, fellowship, and sharing of common experiences helps individuals feel God’s purpose for their life. In feeling God’s grace, individuals can focus on becoming more committed Christians seeking to bring Christ into their families, their churches, their work and their communities.[/SIZE]
    http://www.coloradokoinonia.com/home.html




    I'm not sure if this is accurate, but red flags are going up for me on this one. What are your thougts, and has anybody here on the BB been through this weekend and can share what it really is like?
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have not been through it but I think red flags are appropriate. Most weekend programs are hyped out emotionally to get the people to bond, and sometimes methods that have come down from the est type seminars are used (even in Christian settings), which are actually manipulative and mind altering, although the aims may be for something good.

    My view is that people get a sort of artificial "high" and bonding through the techniques used and sudden closeness with others. Personally, I think it can be dangerous or at the very least misleading. This is not to say some people don't like it or think they get something from it.

    A lot of these things must be continued, so sometimes (I am speaking of LGE - Large Group Experiences) people are asked to continue to meet afterwards, or to come again. These techniques come from the human potential movement (I have an article on this on my site at http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_HumanPotential1.html).

    I personally would not attend something like this.

    Real bonding and closeness and learning to walk with the Lord come over a long period of time.
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's like what I thought - monthly reunions.

    This does not contradict what I said earlier about things taking a long time because I can hear people say, "Well, see they meet again to form relationships." The thing is, the weekend is the hook to get you in; it's manipulative. I am speaking of groups I've researched and heard about it. I am not saying this one is like that but it has some of the marks and could be.

    I'll just be frank - it's kind of creepy to me.
     
  4. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Click on the colorado website and go to history. Kind of chintzy reading, to me.
     
  5. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,535
    Likes Received:
    206
    Sounds like a different version of "Walk to Emmaeus."
     
  6. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    What does "chintzy" mean, and what are you referring to? :confused:
     
  7. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree, it does sound creepy. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. The sad thing is, I never really paid much attention to this, as our church has supported this in the past. I haven't been a true berean in this aspect, and put my trust in the elders who openly support this.

    I have some serious thinking to do...
     
  8. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Sounds kind of cheap, not rich in godliness.
     
  9. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree, very ecumenical and quite new age. I'll be passing on this retreat...
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is there a charge to participate in such a weekend?

    I had some pretty good emotional highs and spiritual mountaintops fellowshipping and worshipping with my own congregation. No manipulation, no New Age techniques, no artificial bonding. And it didn't cost a penny.

    And we'll do it again next Sunday. And the Sunday after that. And the Sunday after......
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Their use of "K" for "C" is annoying. And the ecumenism is nauseating.
     
  12. Goldie

    Goldie
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    When? During the Tribulation or before? I seriously can't see the logic of this unless they're Dominionists and are out to brainwash everyone into thinking we can have "heaven on earth" before Christ returns.
     
  13. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a general rule, I'm wary of parachurch grpups which operate independently of local churches. I'm also wary of those groups which classify themselves as interdenominational or non-denominational.

    Inevitably, it means that those who participate have chose to fellowship with those who teach error. And it also means that such errors have to be ignored or considered of little importance.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is a charge, it's like $150 or so. The local camp brings in $300k according to Manta.

    I also agree about worship and small group interaction within the local church as trumping this kind of program. It also makes me queasy that the husband and wife don't attend together...like they are trying to separate the "one flesh".
     
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    This sounds similar to the Walk to Emmaus weekends. I don't know if it is or not. Several people at my church have been to the Walk for Emmaus thing, and they thought it was awesome, but there's something about it that makes me feel uneasy, so I won't be going. One thing that bothers me is that they require you to be totally cut off from the outside world during those days. No watch, not phone, no spouse. It sounds sort of cultish to me. But I could be totally wrong.
     
  16. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    Psst. Why not come on over to my little group, we meet for our own edification uuuhh we have koinonia at the uuuuhh upper levels so you might reaaaallllllyyyyy enjoy getting to uuuuuhhh know ussss.

    Sent that 150 over to us and we will uuuuuhhh give it to the poor uuuuhh or something like that. We guarranteeeee you will get the fuzzzzzzzzy wuzzzzzzies with our sharing of THE truthhhh uuuuuh why not uhhhh come on over and bring a friend - or uuuuhh at least their 150.

    All the typos are yours for free since I can't edit on this thing for some reason.:thumbs:
     
  17. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amy, I tool the liberty of underlining part of your post.

    These are some the techniques that come down from est back in the 70s (started by Werner Erhard - not his real name btw - est is now called Landmark but is New Age): isolation, taking away watches, etc. These are cultic techniques, which is what I am concerned about with any operation like this. You are not wrong that it sounds cultish.

    Also, I didn't realize they separated the husbands and wives - not a good sign, imo.

    There is another Christian group that operates like this which has led to divisions in churches. The people going on the retreat came back feeling more spiritual than others in the church, and were putting pressure on those who had not gone to attend. The church leadership did not address the problems arising from this, or handled it poorly, and the church split. In fact, I had a friend in this church and this is what got me to write my article on the topic. She and her husband had to leave the church.
     
  18. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    So what exactly IS the purpose of these retreats? Is it a money making scam using religion? Tool of satan? I'm not understanding the purpose...

    Marcia, what is "est"?
     
  19. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Est stands for Erhard Seminar Training. The purpose is often money, though I'm not saying that is the purpose of this group. Some of the leaders who start these derive a sense of power over people. Imo, Satan uses these people, no matter what their motives are, to put people in bondage, confusion, or alter their view of Christianity (if it is a Christian group). If you read my article, "In the Image of Man," it might help (it's not long [​IMG]):
    http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_HumanPotential1.html

    Excerpt from article:
    Erhard left a wife and several children to go off with another woman, later starting est. Last I knew of it, he was in Switzerland, because he's wanted here on tax fraud. I have not checked this out lately, so I don't have current info on him.

    Unfortunately, some people who went through these groups either later became Christians, or were Christians at the time (or at least say they are) and started similar groups. One was BREAKTHROUGH, which I write about in my article. I think it may have changed names. This is another tactic - changing names. Est became the Forum and then Landmark.

    When I lived in Atlanta, the huge Farmers Market there was requiring their employees to attend the Forum seminars. Most of these employees were foreign - many Asian - and were upset at what was being taught as it was against their religious beliefs. They sued and won. However, many companies today either require or pressure employees to attend seminars that, while they may not be as bad as est, are based on the same concepts and techniques.
     
  20. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marsha, thanks for your insights. They are quite helpful.

    A further questioin for you. Would such an organization as Promise Keepers fall into this overall category. It is certainly a parachurch movement, supported by many Baptists.

    After its initial widespread success, it has faded from the scene. Any thoughts about it?
     

Share This Page

Loading...