L. I. Z. A.

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Salty, Nov 13, 2005.

?

We should count the Unborn in our Sunday School / church attendence

  1. Yes

    61.7%
  2. No

    38.3%
  3. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    Many of us say we are pro-life. We believe the fetus is a baby. But how many of our churches count the unborn in our Sunday School and/or church attendence.

    I propose two changes.
    First: we count all the unborn as being in our classes (well they are, arent they?)
    Second: Our chuches should have a L.I.S.A class. L.I.S.A. stands for Life is Sacred Always. LISA class members would be expecetant mothers and fathers!

    Now lets take a poll. And lets see what happens. Remember, actions speak louder than words!
     
  2. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    Hmmmm in just a few minutes 4 people have voted. Two have said we should not count the pre-born in our Sunday School.
    Just wondering why no stated the reason for not being Pro-life?

    Salty
     
  3. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    saltcity. from your last post, it seems you are insinuating that whoever is against the LISA program is not Pro-life. that's how i took it. it's a wrong assumtion.

    reason: i don't think a church should count the unborn in the attendance roll. first of all, they are unborn. second of all, if the couple is part of the church, they should already be pro-life and nobody would have to worry about the unborn not being in attendance. so i said no for the first question.

    now, what would happen within the LISA program?

    depending on how it works on the inside. either way, i wouldn't say this is a 'gread ideal.' simply for the fact that the church body should already be pro-life, considering it's biblical in a way. (ie. thou shalt not murder)

    in question three you have two answers that say the same thing. the second and third ones. i wouldn't not vote for it if that's what people really want. again i say, why would they want it if the church body is assumingly pro-life?

    and i simply wouldn't be a teacher. i'm not the greatest in front of people. lol.
     
  4. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I would disagree with counting them in Sunday School attendance because that would actually reflect numbers which are untrue. The 'preborn' don't currently need a space or teacher.

    I DO like the LISA class tho. We 'dedicated' the parents of 23 children after service today. Our church family is expanding so quickly that we have these 'dedication' services every couple of months.

    Remember, Salty, that Baptist, especially SBC, are accused of being 'numbers' oriented. That would just add fuel to the fire.

    We DO keep an idea of how many are soon to be born and have had to increase our nursery staff and rooms to prepare for those who'll be born soon.

    Thanks again for the link and asking for my opinion.

    Diane
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    310
    I like the idea of a LISA program, especially for new parents. In today's society, many couples have not been properly taught how to parent. However, after the second or third child, folks should have some picture of what to expect. As for not teaching such a class, Herself and I have no children hence we are unqualified. Though, if asked (as in drafted) by my Pastor, I'll salute and teach. Herself is one of seven and I've uncled a score or more over the years. The question about voting is for me a null term. My home church doesn't vote on such matters.
     
  6. Petrel

    Petrel
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    0
    In an adult Sunday School I wouldn't count an unborn baby in attendance, neither would I count a newborn if the mother brought it.
     
  7. bapmom

    bapmom
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    What would be the purpose of a LISA class? To teach the couples how to go through pregnancy? It might have some merit there. At any one time in my church we might have 3 or 4 couples who are expecting. There are times when there are none expecting.
    We already have a class geared towards young couples with kids, which I would think expectant parents would benefit greatly from.

    I wouldn't count the unborn in attendance either, but that doesnt mean I don't think they are alive. For all of the reasons stated by everyone else.
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is a dangerous "slippery slope". The implication is that if you don't count the unborn in attendance, then you're not really prolife. That's a ridiculous and accusatory implication.
     
  9. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    So when would you start counting a child in attendence. I will wait on your answer, then will answer all the other posts.

    I do truly thank each one for your input.
    Just thought of something, imange if we were all toghether in a Baptist church business meeting disccusing this!! :D [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Salty

    ps who said in the poll, I didnt have anything better to do? :confused: [​IMG]
     
  10. natters

    natters
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think many would only count people that were there to participate (hear, learn, discuss, etc).
     
  11. Thankful

    Thankful
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/BettyE.gif>

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,430
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have not heard of this program. Perhaps you can give us more information or a link.
     
  12. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would not count them for attendance unless you want to be consistent and pay double admitance at amusement parks, theaters, concerts, etc. [​IMG]
     
  13. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL. good one artimaeus!
     
  14. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    Just wondering,
    Have any churches started a LISA class yet?
    It is my plans to do so, once SCBC gets off the ground.


    Natters commented "I think many would only count people that were there to participate (hear, learn, discuss, etc)."

    Does that mean that you do not count the children in the Nursery?

    Diane was concerned that we would be adding fuel to the fire by counting the soon-to-be-born. IMHO the problem with #'s in the SBC is memberiship - ie members who have not attended in more than five years. That is padding the church roll numbers. I'm talking about a person who is attending church today.
    And what better time is it to start attending church than before your are born.

    THANKFUL - All the info there is on LISA is what you see on this post. This is an ideal I came up with a couple years ago. I would like to see it put into action.

    Salty
     
  15. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    I am fully committed to the L.I.Z.A class!:thumbs:
    It is not a matter of "padding" just numbers, it is a recognition that the baby to be born soon is truly a person.:wavey:

    We can say we are pro-life, but if we do not take action on it, then it is nothing more than words.

    I would like to point out that just because you do not subscribe to L.I.S.A., that you are not pro-life. Nothing is further from the truth.

    Let me ask my OP question in a different light. Suppose you started to attend a church with a L.I.S.A and they did count all the soon-to-be-born, in attendance, would that stop you from joining that church? If you did join the church, would you consider getting them to change that policy?

    Salty
     
  16. Barnabas H.

    Barnabas H.
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Oldtimer</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    6,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Salty, what are you talking about? Counting the unborn (embryos?) into a Sunday School roll call? It sounds ghoulish. To me, Sunday School attendees have to be people, being able to listen, reason and respond. What are you talking about?! :type:
     
  17. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    So are you saying we dont start counting anybody under the age of three?
    Salty
     
  18. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isn't that kind of like counting your chickens before they're hatched? Yes, I know there's a big difference between chickens and humans, but I've never known anyone to count an unborn child as a member of their family until it's born--especially since they don't always know which gender it is since some choose to wait until it's born to find out. People don't say, "We have one child" when the unborn is the first. They say, "We have a child on the way", or something like that.

    Yes, I believe that the unborn is a life--at least from the moment it's able to feel pain, and it's heart beats for the first time. However, my daughter carried a girl (her name would have been Amber, and she would be a teenager now) for nearly 8 months and then had a still-born. The doctors never figured out why she lost her. So the debate goes on as to when it's actually alive. Opinions are like heads; everyone has one.
     
  19. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2007
    Messages:
    5,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm very pro-life, but I am worried about this idea because of safety measures. If the church building were to catch on fire, how would the responders know exactly how many persons to rescue? If they went by the church roll for that day, someone could end up risking their life to save an unaccounted for person who was actually safe in his mother's womb.

    Also, how would you (if you did) enforce how and when ladies must reveal their pregnancy for benefit of the church roll call? I have friends who have miscarried and didn't want anyone to know they were expecting again until they made it through the first several months. I know from experience, nothing starts tongues wagging like news of a pregnancy. All the questions and unsolicited advice can get overwhelming at times, especially if there have been personal difficulties in the process.

    What about an unmarried lady who doesn't wish to make her pregnancy public knowledge for various reasons?

    Just something to think about.
     
  20. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220

    ABC,
    I think you are making a mountian out of a mole hill
    First, I doubt that a fire dept would look for an attendence roll. Besides, a lot of churches may not even have on
    I am not suggesting it would be manatory for a woman to reveal her pregnancy - I would understand in the situation you mentioned -
    An unmarried lady - well thats a whole nother story there.

    There are two points to LISA (sorry made a mistake in the title)
    1. By using LISA you are letting others know where you stand on the abortion issue
    2. The LISA class would be for expecant mothers and fathers - this class would assist new parents.

    Salty

    ps NO, I would take a women off the membership rolls if she does not realveal her PG status
     

Share This Page

Loading...