LABELS

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by inpeace, Jun 30, 2005.

  1. inpeace

    inpeace
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    How can Arminians and Calvinists "both" be Christians and yet disagree on so many things? Doesn't this create heat as opposed to light within the followers of Christ called "Christians?" Christianity sadly enough, is at the point where non-believers are having to ask "What type of Christian are you?". :confused:
     
  2. OCC

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    Let's see if it works this time. :(

    Both are Christians, they disagree on how it came to happen. It is sad that we have to have labels though. The only one who wins by the constant arguing is the devil himself.
     
  3. dianetavegia

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    It does separate us which is not Christ-like at all. I dislike labels and since I believe I'm a 'neither' or some of both, it upsets me when people attempt to put me in a camp that includes a teaching I find unscriptural (such as the ability to lose your salvation or that there is no literal hell).

    What can this do to our testimony or our denomination?

    We fight over scripture ...... like harlots over a child.

     
  4. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello inpeace.

    The Devil wins nothing KJ. JUDE 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.

    I contend for Him as He contends for me.

    PS 35:23 Awake, and rise to my defense! Contend for me, my God and Lord.

    There is a command from God to contend so it cannot be a bad thing and it is necessary.

    As for labels. They are a shortcut for a person to let someone know where they are coming from. They cannot be taken as perfect whatevers but you get their drift.

    There is nothing sad about the Church. Christ has it where He wants it. Any complaints should be taken to the Head. :cool:
    What type is important. In the field of Christianity there are many wolves.

    john.
     
  5. OCC

    OCC
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    Yes, the devil wins. When the Church is too busy fighting against itself, he wins.

    Contend for the faith...against people who are actually arguing with you over it! Duh! I don't see any CHRISTIANS on here arguing over the faith, do you? Nope. We all believe the gospel...unless you really don't. You do have a way of twisting everyone's words...
     
  6. whatever

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    So now we are arguing about whether the devil wins when we argue?

    To answer the OP, these are very important questions. One group or the other is telling lies about what God has or has not done. That is a very serious thing, even if we are all saved.
     
  7. here now

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    Whatever,
    What do you mean they are telling lies?
     
  8. whatever

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    For one example, Calvinists say that God has chosen to save certain individuals only (and will certainly do so). Arminians say that God has not chosen to save certain individuals only. Both cannot be correct, so somebody is telling lies about what God has or has not chosen to do.

    It is similar to what Paul says to the Corinthians when discussing those who denied the resurrection:

    "And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised."

    Misrepresenting God is a very serious offense and we need to guard against it. That is why this debate is so important.
     
  9. here now

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    Okay, but,as much as I disagree with some people on here I've never thought of their views as(them lying). I just see it as the veil has not been lifted from their eyes for them to see or that the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed to them that particular thing. And I am in no way saying that the Holy Spirit has not revealed anything to them, because I am sure there are many things yet to be revealed to me. No one knows it all. And I think it is safe to say no one ever will. So I certainly don't find fault with others that I disagree with.
     
  10. whatever

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    I don't mean that people intend to be lying, of course, or that we should look at them with malice. I know that "telling lies" is a strong way to put it, and I thought for a while before using that phrase. Maybe there is a better way to say it. Maybe something like "unintentionally telling lies" would describe it better, but the fact is that at least some of us are saying things about God that are not true, and that ought to make us stop and think. That is as much of a win for Satan as our arguments are, IMO. It certainly ought to make us more careful and less arrogant when stating what we believe.

    Absolutely, no one knows it all. I would add that what we do know is often incomplete as well. But when one group says that "God has done X" and another group says "God has not done X" then one or the other is not telling the truth. It is possible that neither group is completely telling the truth. But someone is certainly misrepresenting God, and that is a serious thing. Not unforgivable, but serious, and the possibility ought to make us more careful.
     
  11. inpeace

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    "Christian" to a non-believer is anyone who invokes the name of Christ - therefore the category also includes eg: Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness etc.... Being questioned about the 'divisions' can only be answered by explaining the errors of other christians - this really highlights that there is no unity in the earthly body of Christians!

    Thanks JOHNP for pointing out the "many wolves" -so how then do we know which is the right teaching to follow and which isn't? When I read some of the debates between C/A the real winner is "pride".
     
  12. johnp.

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    Hello inpeace.
    Ask Jesus to show you and then wait on Him to answer you.
    Wait is the key word.
    Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
    Those that follow the wrong way do so because God determined it to be so. Those that follow Calvinism do so because God determined it to be so. :cool: We have no choice.
    No God's word goes out into the world and accomplishes it's purpose, everything else is vanity. All is vanity but our pride does not affect the word except where God as determined it shall affect another.
    If my pride is used by God to put someone off then that is my guilt but that was God's choice to condemn said person. Better not to get involved really and be on our best behaviour but we are vain. We are sinners and we are all selfserving.
    We are under moderators on the board. If they were not here you would be able to see clearly how sinful sin is with the restraint removed. We are sinners.

    john.
     
  13. inpeace

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    thanks johnp. hope i didn't offend anyone with the 'pride' comment.... didn't mean to. [​IMG]
     
  14. Hardsheller

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    If Christians had never disagreed over anything theological there's be one church today.

    That's the Pope's Position.
     
  15. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Inpeace;
    There will always be arguements between men. we argue doctrine because we are individuals everyone perceves a little differently. There is only one requirement for Salvation and that is believing on Christ. Christ said.
    Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
    Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
    While Calvinist and Arminians do argue over the semantics. Both would have to agree we are brothers and sisters in Christ. I believe I will see a lot who I didn't think would be there in heaven. There will most likely be a lot, that I had thought would be there, that won't.
    The arguments here are not about Salvation but how it comes about.
    How could someone say that a person is not saved who claims Christ as Savior? Only Christ can see, what is in a mans heart and is able to judge.

    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
  16. dianetavegia

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    Labels: Born-Again is a 'bad' label in some parts of the U.S. I said I was a born again Christian back in 1982 when we first moved to Connecticut and even the Baptists (American) thought I was Pentacostal/ Charismatic!
     

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