LAST RIGHTS

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by 1Baptism, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. 1Baptism

    1Baptism
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    My question deals with last rights a catholic convert's husband was about to die and they requested last rights. Is there such a thing in the Baptist doctrin, and if so what are the scriptural references, and procedures?
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Give a Catholic's definition of last rights. Is this like the right to remain silent...

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. rsr

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    1Baptism said;

    "Is there such a thing in the Baptist doctrin, and if so what are the scriptural references, and procedures?"

    No. None and none.

    The concept of "last rites" presupposes that an institution, through its representative, can provide some form of assurance of salvation or absolution from sin.

    Baptists believe that each believer is a priest, one who approaches God directly through the mediation of Jesus Christ. No one else can do this for us and it is our responsibility to do it for ourselves.

    Ministers may be at the deathbed to provide comfort and to pray, but they have no influence over our relationship with God.

    BTW: How long have you been a Baptist? Did you come to the Baptists from another tradition? I'm not belittling you, but the question bespeaks an unfamiliarity with traditional Baptist beliefs.

    We're here to help.
     
  4. Born Again Catholic

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    I am not sure if their is something similar I would start by finding where in Baptist doctrine an elder of the church is called for the sick and that elder prays over sick person and anoints them with oil in the name of the Lord.


    James 5:14 (KJV)

    14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

    God Bless
     
  5. A_Christian

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    Who is an "Elder?" The word does not mean priest, father, or pastor...
     
  6. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    Anointing is for the purpose of concentrating our focus in prayer for the sick person, seeking God's physical healing, as is "laying on of hands." It is not for salvation.

    As a deacon (elder), I have participated in such prayer on rare occaisions.
     
  7. TP

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    Greetings,

    A quick corrections: Rites, not Rights.

    Also we do not call it last rites, rather it is the Anointing of the sick. It comes from James where the Presbyter was called to anoint the sick person with oil and pray with them.

    This is not only for the dying, but for all sick people. I anoint people before surgeries, for elderly, for those with chronic illnesses. It is for healing.

    It is called for by the scriptures, but I do not know of ANY Non-denom or baptist church who does it. If there were, I suppose this is the correct place to ask.

    peace
     
  8. Johnv

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    There is no equivalent of last rites in Baptist custom.

    Roman Catholic last rites consist of a terminally ill or dying person being given prayer, anointing with oil and being given communion. In and of itself, doing those things on the deathbed doesn't violate scripture (RCC doctrines notwithstanding).

    Although I'm not Catholic, if I'm on my deathbed, I would very much like to have my pastor pray over/with me, anoint me with oil, and give me communion one last tiem before I die. Call it last rites or call it prayer, anointing, and communion, dun't matter to me.
     
  9. TP

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    Greetings,

    Johnv:

    I am new to this board, and I don't know the personages. But in the couple of responses of yours I have read, I am impressed. Well thought out.

    Peace
     
  10. Johnv

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    Thank you. I appreciate it.
     
  11. Born Again Catholic

    Born Again Catholic
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    In the greek is the word not presbuteros or what we call presbyter.

    Per Websters Dictionary (1913)

    Pres"by*ter (?), n. [L. an elder, fr. Gr. . See Priest.]

    1. An elder in the early Christian church.
    2. One ordained to the second order in the ministry; -- called also priest.


    Priest (?), n. [OE. prest, preost, AS. preóst, fr. L. presbyter, Gr. elder, older, n., an elder,

    1. (Christian Church) A presbyter elder; a minister
     
  12. DHK

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    Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    The same men called "elders" in verse 17 are referred to as pastors (the ones shepherding the flock--the work of a pastor; and bishops or overseers (presbuteros), the same word as elders. All three words refer to the same office. Elder, bishop, pastor, all refer to the same office of the pastor of the church. They are the same office describing different functions. Not one of them give the idea of "Priest." That is a false assumption, and can only be gained by a modern English dictionary using contemporary English. It is not found in the Greek, in which the New Testament was written in. The New Testament teaches that every believer is a priest before God.

    Last rites, or extreme unction, (really extreme), is a superstitious man-made doctrine that has no basis in Scripture whatsoever. Just as in infant baptism, water cannot save. Annointing of any kind of substance cannot save. It can only get you wet. A dying man can only be saved by trusting in Christ, the same way the thief on the cross did. The thief on the cross was not baptized, nor was he annointed, nor was he given "last rites." He was not superstitious, and neither was Jesus. He was saved by faith in Christ, and by faith alone.

    John's idea is contrary to Scripture. I can go to a person in the hospital who is near death. If the person is saved, I can comfort that person with prayer and Scripture. If he is not saved, the only thing that I can do is to try and lead that person to Christ. The ordinance of the Lord's Table is an ordinance given to the local church. It is not an ordinance to be given to a single individual in a hospital, and it is not sacrament which has any salvic or meritorious value. Therefore there is no value in administering communion. It is against the principles of the Bible to do so. It is an ordinance that is given for the entire local church to partake of, not just one individual. There are no "baptist last rites," so to speak of. Baptists don't beieve in any comparable supersitions as the Catholic Church does.
    DHK
     
  13. padredurand

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    For when we have the right to remain silent but not the ability. :D The rite is called Extreme Unction.

    The Catholic Encyclopedia. Link

    Take a few minutes to read the article. Then weigh it in the balance with Scripture.

    I wonder why not? Does it look too Romish? The passage in James has restoration as its focus, not a ceremonial swan song.
     
  14. music4Him

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    After reading Debby's post here and the ones that TP and John posted afterward...I got to thinking....I the doc said thats it he can't do no more.... then I would want my pastor anointing me with oil and praying for my healing! [​IMG] Some have been healed after taking communion too!
    I guess I remember the joke where 3 men were asked what thay would like to hear after they were gone (the third guy said he would like to hear...look I think he's moving) [​IMG]

    But either/or the main thing if a priest or pastor is there I would hope if the person isn't saved they offer the gosple of Christ to them and give them a chance to accept Jesus as thier Savior.
    [​IMG]
    Music4Him
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Last rites is based on the RC fabrication known as "Purgatory". You get a plenary indulgence (get out of torture card free) when the priest says last rites - and IF you are in a state of grace THEN you have a good shot at not going to purgatory. However you are not guaranteed because plenary indulgences merely show the RCC willing to get you out of purgatory - God must then follow up on that and because you can't be certain that He will - the RCC urges its members to get multiple plenary indulgences for the SAME departed loved one.

    Also last rites shares faith in what budhists and new-agers believe in - which is the idea that the spirit of a dead person "hangs around the dead body" for a while after death. Because of that superstition it is "allowed" that last rites be said over someone who is already dead - as long as they are "recently dead".

    Facinating how paganism has been so well established in the RCC as it made up new doctrines for Christians over the centuries.

    Enjoy!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. BobRyan

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    From the link posted above we have...

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05716a.htm

    So "no" -- a protestant would not have gone for the error starting as far back as Albigenses and Waldenses.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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