laymen..or is that lay(zee)men?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Pete, Jun 16, 2003.

  1. Pete

    Pete
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    Ephesians 2:10, Ephesians 4:11-13, Hebrews 5:12, 1 Peter 2:9, Revelation 1:6...To name a few.

    Of course we are not saved BY works, but I think it is safe to say we are saved FOR works. So how about it? Are you working?

    Pastors, how often do you encourage, exhort, poke with a stick, or slap your laymen about this?

    Laymen, are you doing something/anything? How often do you volunteer for something/anything?

    Pete
     
  2. wizofoz

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    Getting some church members to volunteer or help with anything is about as easy as pulling a wisdom tooth.
    I agree with the saying that 10% of the members do 90% of the work. Sad.
     
  3. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Yes, it is sad. I was always told if I wanted something done to ask a busy man. They are the ones who will get it done. The ones who have done nothing but warm a pew, in the past, are not likely to do much in the future.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  4. SaggyWoman

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    Sometimes it pays to ask.
     
  5. wizofoz

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    When we do ask, the only ones to volunteer are Ida Know and Notme. ;)
     
  6. Jonathan

    Jonathan
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    I no longer agree with this statement. The 90% of member who aren't involved aren't really members.

    I'd suggest that the real lazy bones in this argument are pastors who refuse to work to establish meaningful membership parameters that would result in significant percentages of members being taken off of active rolls.

    Trust me on this, the 10-20% of your laity who are doing 90-100% of the work will support you. But you are going to have to find a backbone to go along with all of the yappin' about low percentages of participation.
     
  7. Karen

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    True, and often there are lazy members.
    BUT I have been a member of the same church for almost 20 years.
    I would encourage the pastors who think their members are like this to spend more time actually getting to know those members.
    I have found over and over and over that some of the people I thought JUST warmed a pew on Sunday morning were carrying incredible burdens (such as caring for bedfast elderly family in their homes -sometimes more than one) or had very difficult physical illnesses (dialysis, Crohn's disease, many others). There are other good reasons, too.
    And the people with these burdens just deal with it daily instead of continually pointing it out.

    I have also said numerous times on this board that pastors often have unrealistic expectations.
    The very same pastor that considers his day off sacrosanct teaches his deacons that their only day off is not.

    Karen
     
  8. PJ

    PJ
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    Sad indeed, but true. It's a good thing the "core" workers enjoy what we're doing.

    My dad quotes this poem occasionally, usually when he's most worn out:

    "Mary had a little lamb that grew into a sheep. It joined our Southern Baptist Church and died for lack of sleep!"

    Cheers! [​IMG]

    PJ
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Don't see them as "lazy" members, but rather as "baby" members. They don't minister because they are spiritual infants/toddlers.

    Answer? Spiritual growth. MEAT not just John 3:16 milk. (I've been in churches where the same simple salvation message was preached every Sunday morning - and for some members, that was all they ever heard as they didn't attend any other service). Doctrinal studies, cell groups, mentoring and pastoral care.

    As they are trained they will take my place and do the work of the ministry. And that's what Ephesians 4
     
  10. PJ

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    This is true in some cases. However, I worry about the long time members who never jump in and get wet. :rolleyes:
    PJ
     
  11. SaggyWoman

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    Plus, people shouldn't do out of guilt or because no one else will. Let God work.
     
  12. Pete

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    True Karen, I should have expanded on the original post to mention the sick etc. Come to think of it looking after a sick family member full-time could probably be classed as a ministry anyway [​IMG]


    [​IMG] What a way to go though :D


    I must admit I just threw in the "lay(zee)men" mainly because I liked the sound of the gag ;)

    Dr Bob, where would you put responsibility for that situation? On the preacher/teachers for just dishing up milk every week, or the people in the Church for not looking for meat if they were just getting milk? Or a combination of all of the above?


    SaggyWoman, true. However with such low percentages of people into anything at any Church I think maybe a bit of "encouragement with extreme prejudice" is needed...Or as Jim Elliot said "We don't need a call; we need a kick in the pants." ;)

    Pete
     
  13. IfbReformer

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    Pete,

    I agree and I disagree with you at the same time.

    I agree that there are laymen in the church who could do more.

    I don't agree that Pastors should use aggresive tactics in getting people to do things around the church.

    I Peter 5:2-3(NIV)
    "2Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers--not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock."

    I believe that the Pastor should lead by example -not that he should have to do everything, but that the people see him doing a good job and working hard.

    If the people do not of their own free-will(prompted by the Holy Spirit) do not help
    with the load then maybe that church should close
    its doors.

    I have served in various ministries in almost every church I have ever attended. I have been a Sunday School Teacher, Van driver, Church Secretary and whatever was needed.

    I have also come to realize that at different points in our lives we can do more in our church and at other times it is enough to bring our family faithfuly and sit in the pew.

    Some people like my parents - are caring for both of my grandmothers in their home which is a full time job. They cannot teach Sunday school or drive a van. It is enough that they come faithfully to the services and pray for their church.

    When I was younger and did not have children I could do much more - but as I have 3 small children at home and one on the way I have stepped back for awhile to take care of my family.

    I believe many times we believe that we must be equally involved in the ministries at all stages of our lives - that thinking is flawed.

    Those who do not have a family or whose children are grown and gone can and should carry more of the load(if they are not caring for elderly in their homes).

    We must remember that God instituted the family long before he instituted the church - if we ignore or neglect the needs of our family to spend more time working at the church then we have it all backwards.

    Just a thought.

    IFBReformer
     
  14. Madelyn Hope

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    Unfortunately some ministries at some churches can be very cliquish. There is nothing more frustrating to want to serve in an area only to be made to feel very unwelcome when you try to get involved.

    I also believe that ministries aren't limited to activities organized by the church. Like the example of caring for elderly relatives, there are many ministries that one can be involved in on your own.

    If you really want to get more people involved in ministries, ask them nicely (i.e., no guilt trips) to join you in a particular event. If they say no, say something like we'll miss having you there -- maybe next time.
     
  15. hsmom3

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    IFBReformer and Madelyn Hope, I agree with you. [​IMG]

    I have 3 children and am a single mother and I CANNOT take on any extra responsibilities. But there are those in my church who seem to think I can. :( I had one guy approach me at VBS last summer and asked me "Why aren't you teaching a class?" It really offended me, because it wasn't his place to question my work for the Lord. I consider my primary ministry my family. I have seen too many people forsake their families in order to minister to the church. There is an excellent article about it here. http://www.achristianhome.com/Sandy's_Sunroom/Welllovedfamily.htm

    The most important thing that I can do for my church at this season of my life is to be a prayer warrior. [​IMG]

    hsmom3
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    Squarely on the Pastor. In their quest for (1) Numbers and (2) Contentment w/i the rank and file of the church, or from personal lack of training or knowledge of the Word because of shoddy churches and so-called bible colleges, Pastors have lost the vision of what our church services are all about. They are to edify the saints. Build them up, strengthen them, wean them from the rudiments of the faith (simple Gospel) into full maturity.

    Theme over and over by Paul, but ignored in our same-old-same-old "evangelistic" services. Babies can come and "AMEN" loudly Romans 10:9-10 and never know that the rest of Romans is full of real meat and doctrine.

    Like many parts of life, it Rises and falls on leadership. Pastors, elders content with suckling the baby believers (who, btw, think the pastor is a great "man of God") instead of building them up in the faith. Sad day.
     
  17. PJ

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    You have such a way with words, Bro. Bob. You've certainly summed up my thoughts on the subject. [​IMG]
    PJ
     

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