Lazarus revived

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by pinoybaptist, Dec 2, 2005.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Listening to Chuck Swindoll this morning while driving to work something he said struck me.
    He said that Jesus did not resurrect Lazarus (and by implication, Jairus' daughter) from the dead, because to be resurrected means to have a different, heavenly and glorified body like Jesus had when He resurrected, able to pass through time and space and matter, at will.
    He said Jesus simply resuscitated Lazarus.
    What do you think ?
     
  2. BobRyan

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    What a hoot!!

    Chuck is usually much more Bible based and balanced than that!

    The Bible repeatedly says that the dead are "RAISED" referring to BOTH the great resurrection at the last day and to the individual resurrection accounts.

    This "pass through time and space" drivel is pure scifi TV hype. I am surprised that Swindoll went for it.

    NO text says that the resurrected saints can "pass through time" as in go backwards or speed up through time.

    NO text says that the resurrected saints can pass through "matter".

    I just can't believe that people would be so willing to "make stuff up" like that!! Especiallly Swindoll - as he is normally so good about being Bible based.
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    Thanks, Bob.
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Thank you for pointing this out. It is good to know what he is doing with that. However the good news is that over time he has been known to adopt a more Bible centered position on other subjects where he took an early speculative position so maybe this is one that he will see the light on over time.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. wopik

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    there are apparently two Lazarus(es) in the Bible.

    This one was dead for four days-----he stunk.


    One of the most dramatic of all Jesus miracles was the raising of Lazarus from the dead. (John 11:1)


    What makes it so dramatic is that Jesus was determined that everyone should be certain that Lazarus was really dead.


    He waited so long, that when Jesus told them to take away the stone covering the tomb, "Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinks: for he hath been dead four days." (John 11:39)

    Now consider this item from the New International Version Study Bible:

    "Many Jews believed that the soul remained near the body for three days after death in the hope of returning to it. If this idea was in the minds of these people, they obviously thought all hope was gone - Lazarus was irrevocably dead."


    It was important that Jesus be in the grave three days and three nights lest someone claim He had merely revived and not really been dead.


    http://www.abcog.org/ntsab.htm
     
  6. Born Again Catholic

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    Lazarus and the girl where resurrected from the dead but not in the same way we will be resurrected from the dead. Both lazarus and that girl ultimately had to die a natural death at some later point in their life.

    Jesus was resurrected and conquered death completely never to face another physical death again, and we to hope to share in that resurrection where our bodies will be resurrected never to die again.
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    An interesting thing about Lazarus' resurrection....

    Jesus told His disciples in John 11 that Lazarus' sickness was not unto death. In other words, death would not claim him. Now we read further that Lazarus did indeed die. But we know because his was not a sickness that death could grasp him and hold onto him, Jesus spoke the truth.

    Lazarus could not have walked out of the grave, for he was bound head to toe as was the custom.

    When Jesus called out, "Lazarus, come forth', Lazarus had to have levitated out.
     
  8. Johnv

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    I think Swindoll is agruing symantics.

    Lazarus was dead, dead, dead. Jesus brought him back from the dead. Call it recussitation, call it resurrection call it apple pie. Lazarus was dead, and Jesus raised him from the dead, period.
     
  9. Me4Him

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    "Resurrection" as used by scripture means:

    to be back on earth, alive

    "Every place" the word "resurrection" is used, you'll find them "Back on earth, alive".

    The Rapture occur "pre trib", but the "First Resurrection" occurs "post trib", when Jesus returns "to the earth" with "all his saints".

    The "rapture" is not referred to as a "resurrection" by scripture, for this reason, even though they get their "glorified bodies" at this time.

    Check it out.
     
  10. preacher

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    an-as'-tas-is
    From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.(Strongs)
     
  11. wopik

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  12. wopik

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  13. Me4Him

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    I listen to the GTA tapes, he evidently doesn't know the scripture very well.

    He said there was no verse in scripture that said we go to be with Jesus in heaven when we die, but are "asleep" until the resurrection.

    2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    Re 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, (Cloud of Witnesses, Souls of the dead) and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (Jesus) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

    Jesus himself said we "NEVER DIE".

    Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Consequently, Absent from the body, present with the Lord.
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

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    What Garner Ted Armstrong is teaching is a soul sleep doctrine, which is contrary to the Word of God. Even back in the book of the Kings we see soul sleep is not a true doctrine....

    1 Kings 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
    1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
     
  15. D28guy

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    Just how many angels can dance on that needle?

    Mike :D
     
  16. BobRyan

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    John 11 Jesus said "Lazarus sleeps" -- HE did not say "Lazarus is NOT alseep but HIS BODY is".

    John 11 Jesus then states emphatically "LAZARUS IS DEAD"

    In 1Thess 4 Paul calls the "DEAD in Christ" those who have "FALLEN asleep".

    In 1Cor 15 Paul says "WE shall not ALL sleep but WE shall ALL be changed"!

    It is the PERSON that sleeps and the PERSON that is CHANGED!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. Me4Him

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    The "BODY" sleeps, but not the "SOUL", only the "BODY" is "resurrected" from the earth.

    "Sleep" refers to the "Body", not the soul, the "SOUL" isn't changed in the twinkling of an eye, but the "BODY".

    The "souls" (CLOUDS) in Heaven come with Jesus in the rapture to be reunited with their "sleeping bodies", then we are "changed".

    Re 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

    15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

    16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (rapture)

    "THEN THE TRIB".

    Re 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

    18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

    19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

    20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
     
  18. BobRyan

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    The body never sleeps. The body dies and returns to dust. In 2Cor 5:1-4 we are told that THIS body is wearing out and ends. A NEW body is given TO US.

    NEVER in all of scripture is it said "The saints are AWAKE but their toes are sleeping" or "their bodies are sleeping". "WE do not all sleep but WE are all changed" 1Cor 15.

    It is "WE the PEOPLE" not WE the corpses!!

    See?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Me4Him

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    "Sleep" is a referrence to being "Dead",

    But the soul is "NEVER" "dead".

    The "part" awaken, is the part asleep, (dead) the "Resurrected body".

    A "Glorified body" is a "physical body", (like Jesus's body) resurrected/kept alive by "SPIRIT", rather than "Blood",

    The "body" will receive a "Transfusion" from blood to Spirit.

    Just as the Spirit "RENEWS" the inward man day to day, now, one day it will "RENEW" the "Outward man" (flesh) day to day, keeping it alive for "eternity".

    HAPPY NEW YEAR [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. BobRyan

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    The Bible never says "you are awake but your body sleeps".

    In 2cor 5 we are told that THIS "earthly tent is decaying" and will eventually be totally gone!

    The dust that remains is not "sleepy dust".

    It is ALWAYS the PERSON that sleeps. So in 1Cor 15 Paul says "WE shall not all sleep but WE shall be changed" - this is not a conversation between corpses saying "WE shall not all sleep but WE shall be changed".

    NEITHER is it "PAul's body talking to your body but not to you the person".

    Ezek 18:1-4 is clear "the SOUL that sins IT SHALL DIE".

    No text in all of scripture says that you have "an immortal soul".

    But having said that - there is no doubt that it is the soul that is the PERSON and the PERSON is the one that Christ and Paul claim "SLEEPS".

    As 2Cor 5 points out we are raised with ANOTHER body - the earthly body is destroyed - it does not "sleep".

    EVEN in Matt 10 Christ says that In THIS life men can "KILL the body but not the soul" HE does not say "They can make the body go to sleep but not the soul".


    Happy New Year to all!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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