1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Leaving the Baptist Church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saved by grace, Feb 23, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 4
  1. paul wassona

    paul wassona New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    0
    What are CoG's and apostolics doing posting in a Baptist only forum? They give credit to the devil and come in here disguised as baptist then they underhandedly start threads playing on the sympathetic and spread their false doctrine. "SBG" and HAMel both have brought into question baptist distinctives and are obviously not baptists. They're using this as a platform and you all play right into it. Two indentifying marks of a cult is to add works to grace that saves and the other is to say man cannot understand the bible. Mr. Moderator, may we ask these fellows to be welcomed into their appropiate forums?
     
    #41 paul wassona, Feb 25, 2010
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    How do those who are unsaved have the Holy Spirit. You are saying that we need to be baptized THEN we receive the Holy Spirit but in the Acts 10 passage, they had received the Holy Spirit BEFORE baptism.
     
    #42 annsni, Feb 25, 2010
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    I have to say that I'm reading through James right now and while James 2 SEEMS like it might say that works save us, when we read the passage I find it so clear. Yes, works are important - they are the sign of life in us. If we do not do works, then what kind of faith do we have? Do we really have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ who died a horrific death so that we might have life or do we have "faith" in the concept of Jesus and His goodness and all is hunky dory? In light of the cross, my whole life changed and my works absolutely changed too. Just like breathing is a sign of life, works is a sign of life. Abraham, while he had faith and it is said "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness", it was the works that bore out the proof of that faith. It was not the works that saved him - but the works showed his faith and was a proof of that faith in God. If Abraham had "faith" but didn't do anything to obey God, would he really have had faith?

    When we see the whole of Scripture, we see so clearly that it is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ that saves us from our sins. If it were works, then we would have salvation, not have salvation, have salvation, not have salvation and be like a kid playing with the waves at the beach. But instead it is a one time thing - an instant - that we become saved. From that salvation, we show over and over again the evidence of that new life in the works that we do. We do need to work at it because it doesn't always come naturally thanks to our sinful selves and such but if we are truly a child of God, we will have a heart that desires to please our Father. THAT is the proof in the pudding.
     
    #43 annsni, Feb 25, 2010
  4. go2church

    go2church Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist

    There are lots of Baptists who do not believe in eternal security, Free Will and General Baptists. Perhaps the Original Poster should check out a few of those, they may be able to provide answers you are looking for.

    I would also say that in our journey with Christ, until we are with Him where he is, there will always be an element of mystery. The Bible doesn't tell us everything we want to know, but it does tell us what we need to know so we can be saved.
     
    #44 go2church, Feb 25, 2010
  5. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    .
    WHen did I say we can be saved by works?? What I am seeing is that faith and works go together. They cannot be separated. Not faith alone, not works alone but faith and works together

    Romans 11:22
    That 's not what it says. " it is the doers of the law that will be justified".He is talking about the moral law. Verse 2:21 " while you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?" Clearly Paul wants them to be doers of the moral law not just hearers.

    14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
    16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
    17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
    18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

    I think that you miss the context. Verse 15 "Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!" Paul is speaking to Jewish Christians that wanted to hold on to Jewish understanding of salvation by the works of the Mosaic Law. Paul says we are saved by grace. Does this mean they now sin?? "by no means!" Verse16 " you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness"
    Here again scripture tells us it is not faith alone but obedience to God that leads to righteousness. Obedience is a work that is necessary to attain eternal life. Not obedience alone but with faith.
    We are saved by grace but we can lose that grace through disobedience to God and we can lose our salvation. I know that is not the Baptist understanding but this is why I am leaving
     
    #45 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
  6. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Cornelius was a pagan. God accepted His prayers Acts 10:4 "what is it Lord? "Your prayers and your alms have ascended as a memorial before God"

    The Holy Spirit was sent to Cornelius as a sign to Peter that the pagans could also be in the kingdom of God.
     
    #46 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Have you left yet?
     
    #47 Revmitchell, Feb 25, 2010
  8. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trotter. I used to believe just like you. Have you considered that maybe you could be wrong?? There are too many scriptures that say we can lose our salvation and that faith and works go together. You cannot separate them.
     
    #48 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Have you left yet?
     
    #49 Revmitchell, Feb 25, 2010
  10. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    saved by grace,, you are posting in the wrong forum, you are not baptist, by your own admission, and this is a baptist only forum, why do you flaunt the rules like this, if works is added to salvation, your works here are not good for you.
     
    #50 donnA, Feb 25, 2010
  11. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    James 2:26. : “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.”

    I hear what you are saying but I don't think that works are just for others to see. These works come from God. He gives us the grace to do them and we must do them. It is not an option. Good works are done for God not for men. How can we have eternal life with a dead faith?
    . This begs the question, what is truth? This is what I am struggling with. The Holy Spirt was supposed to guide us into all truth not some truth. Yet every church is different.

    . I used to, now I don't. Eternal security and free will do not go together.

    I think it is not to the wood shed but to hell. WE have free will to accept or reject God's grace. When we sin we reject His Grace. My pastor never told me that there are different levels of sin. He said all are equal yet John tells us that some sins are deadly and some are not. Some lead to hell some do not. 1 John 5:16-17

    These scriptures give me trouble regarding eternal security. How else can they be interpreted?

    Matt. 7:19–23 “,Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

    DId Paul have eternal security?
    1 Cor 9:26–27, “Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”

    How could Paul be “disqualified” from the race if he has already won the prize? If he had eternal security?

    Hebrews 12:26–27, “For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries
     
    #51 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
  12. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    this si not grace, therefore your name here, 'saved by grace' is a lie. apparently as far as your concerned Jesus sacrifice is menaingless, you need to 'help' Him by acheving your own salvation through works.
    again, your on the wrong forum and are a troll
     
    #52 donnA, Feb 25, 2010
  13. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    The Holy Spirit comng upon the pagans was simply a sign given to Peter that non-Jews could come into the Kingdom. Acts 15:8 clearly tells us this
    "And God who know the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith...but we believe that we shall be saved throufh the grace of the LOrd Jesus, just as they will""

    Notice it doesn't say they are saved but they "shall be". Again here is another scripture that says there is no assurance of salvation.
     
    #53 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
  14. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    still in the wrong forum I see, rules are not for you are they, yet you claim salvation is by following the rules, and you don't seem to want to follow rules, your in big trouble then aren't you.
     
    #54 donnA, Feb 25, 2010
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    It appears that you already have and have come on this board to teach the rest of us.

    Leaving the Baptist church was probably a good idea.
     
    #55 Amy.G, Feb 25, 2010
  16. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    Unbelivable....I am struggling with what I have always believed and accused of being a troll.

    Yes,yes, yes.. We are saved by grace. But that doesn't mean we remain in grace. Sin separates us from God. Deadly sins as John says in 1 John 5.

    Works alone can't save us but when they are given to us by God we must obey and respond to His saving grace. When we sin we are rejecting His grace and if we sin enough we will no inherit the kingdom of God.
     
    #56 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
  17. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    you admit not being a baptist, your beleifs are not baptist, you are in the wrong forum.

    ever read, where sin is grace does much more abound? hum?
    does not give liberty to willfully sin and keep sinning all a person wants, but it does tell us we can not out sin God's grace, the bible teaches completely different then you've been posting. It's scripture and God your complaining about, becasaue it does not suit you, as if God has too.
    Your in the wrong forum.
     
    #57 donnA, Feb 25, 2010
  18. go2church

    go2church Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    6
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Forget the discussion, protect the forum, by all means keep it pure!?! Please
     
    #58 go2church, Feb 25, 2010
  19. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    43
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your posts belie the idea that you are struggling. Your first post seemed to be the post of someone who was seriously asking questions. Your current posts continue to tell us that you have changed your beliefs and are seeking to argue.

    So, to quote a famous poster: :thumbs:

     
    #59 Tom Bryant, Feb 25, 2010
  20. saved by grace

    saved by grace Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    2
    ,
    No where does it say works save us. It is works along with faith. Not faith alone, not works alone, works and faith. You cannot separate them

    Exactly. Without works we have a dead faith. How can we enter heaven with a dead faith? Can we enter eternal life if we sin against His commandments? No, because that means we had a dead faith. Therefore we must do those works to have a saving faith. So works are necessary. Not works alone but works with faith.
    Was he righteous just because he believed or was it because he believed and he obeyed God?? THis again is faith and works together. Both are necessary. That is why James says we are not justified by faith alone.. Works have a part in sanctification.
    Yes
    This is why I think Jesus and the apostles say we must "endure to the end". We can be saved if we remain in God's grace. If we sin we must confess our sins (a work) and we must repent (a work). Yes, I have come to believe that we can fall, confess and repent, and be grafted back into His grace. Eternal security denies our free will.

    . WHen we accept God's grace we become saved but that doesn't mean the we remain saved. Again, we have free will to reject God's grace.

    WE have a sinful nature. We need God's grace to receive eternal life. But we must remain in Christ to have eternal life

    John 14:15
    If you love me, keep my commandments.
    John 14:21
    He that has my commandments and keeps them; he it is that loves me. And he that loves me shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.

    1 John 2:3
    And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments.
    1 John 5:2
    In this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep his commandments.

    1 John 2:4 " he who says "I know him but disobeys his commandments is a liar"
     
    #60 saved by grace, Feb 25, 2010
Page 3 of 4
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...