Legalism

Agreed..and when you use the word legalism on a Christian site, the context means that people are going to think adding works to salvation. That's the meaning I take behind the word when I see it on this site, or in any other context related to Christianity.

 

I know what the rest of you are saying. But as Aaron, myself and a few others have come on every once and awhile and reminded you that what you are talking about is not legalism.
Your current definition is correct according to a modern definition.
But if we are speaking about doctrine, and this is doctrine (teaching), then we should use Biblical terminology.

The subject here is not legalism but rather worldliness vs. holiness.
The Bible commands us: Be not conformed to this world.
It also commands us: Be conformed to the image of Christ.

Within these two commands fall a variety of "standards" that Christians have to ask themselves: Am I walking according to the world, or as Christ would have me walk? Whose will am I doing? I go to a church that has dress standards. But that standard has to be a conviction. It is not a "forced" standard. It is preached, but not "enforced." It must come from the heart. If you believe differently then that is between you and God.

Romans 14:5 Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
"For whatever is not of faith is sin."

 

Ok, what word would you use to describe someone that
adds rules to the Bible that are not in there,
then expects others to abide by them to measure up to their standard of holiness?
The modern word "Legalism" fits that definition.

What is a better word? I will start using that one.

(EDITED TO ADD)

WOW.. I just read the definition I used.. and immediately thought of the word

Pharisee...
They added rules
They expected people to abide by their rules
They measured others holiness based on their rules...

Phariseeism!... YES...
That fits...

 

Tim I agree with you that there are two definitions. Actually I posted a good definition of them myself in post #25 from the book "Understanding Christian Theology".

However one thing I disagree about is (unless I have missed it) that I haven't seen anyone say that they "expected others to abide by" anything on this thread. Rather just people talking about their own standards that they feel are appropriate for themselves and their families.

My point is we all have standards where we draw the line at. How we view someone else just depends on which side of that line we fall on. Of course there are always people on the other side of our own lines as well.

 

tim said:

Yes, Pastor Chappell often talked of the differences of "preferences" and
"doctrine" - stating that preferences were arrived at through much study of the scripture and solid Christian growth. Your preferences determine how aligned you are with Jesus - or how aligned you are with the world.

I pray for you. Your childlike perception has exaggerated and magnified preferences into some kind of staunch unforgiving rule book in your head. I hope some day you heal from what was apparently a very sad childhood so you can be effective in your life and your ministry, not just a bitter confused person who twists the Christian life into some kind of "I have grace so I can sin as much as I like" situation.

Integrity and moral character are not something to scoff at, Tim. We don't have enough of it in this country anymore, thanks to liberals, the ACLU, the feminist movement, and the like. Lord willing, a revival will happen in this country and we will see many come to an altar (go ahead, nit pick my use of the word altar, yes, it is what I said) and witness multitudes accept Jesus as Saviour. I don't doubt your salvation, that is between you and God....but I do doubt your effectiveness when you have such a weak testimony and witness in allowing your church flock to pretty much do anything that they want to under the umbrella of grace. Carte Blanche...no restrictions, no rules.

Even so, Lord, come quickly!

 

And that is the point that causes many to stumble. Instead of grace there is often judgment, especially among new believers.
Having said that, however, my wife works at a retail clothing store. She observes that there are some believers (church members) that come to church that would not be allowed to work at the store if they applied in the same apparel. The same is true for my son in the business he works for. The company holds a higher standard than many who attend the church have. If the world knows the value of being well-dressed and modesty, should not we?

The question is worldliness. Or, holiness?

 

You won't get an argument from me. :thumbs:

 

Wow. you don't know me at all!.. LOL

for you to say that I am a "bitter confused person who twists the Christian life into some kind of "I have grace so I can sin as much as I like" situation." Shows that you know NOTHING about me.. .

I preach against sin HARD.. Real sin.. not man made rules...
But things God calls sin... From HIS book.. not my book.

And thanks for your prayers.. Just realize WE both need them.

And I too pray for a great revival.. one that is not based in legalism, phariseeism, or what ever we want to call it.. but one based in the fact that people are dying and going to Hell, and ONLY Christ can save them.

I come down hard on man made rules that people equate with what's in the Bible.. because I LOVE that book.. and to add man made rules to what God says waters down the effectiveness of HIS word.

Stand against sin.. real sin..
Stand for Christ...

 

Tim said:

Do you have any rules at your church? Anything to make chaos into order?
Or while you preach against sin, everybody is up, running around, doing what they want to?

 

Of course there are social rules that civilized people adhere to when coming to church.. the Bible speaks to this, when Paul said, let things be done in order.

 

Gotta go to bed tonight.. catch you all tomorrow..

 

Good night, Tim. I have to work til 6 AM, dealing with people who buck the system and don't like rules.

 

If I tell people I am reverencing God by doing xyz, and you aren't doing xyz and they know it, then what exactly do you think I am saying to you. by doing this I am telling you I expect you to live by my xyz or you are not reverencing God and I am better then you.

no one has said this, it's made up.

Basically we have a choice, man made rules or God made rules, there is a difference. Some prefer man made rules, and always will, this is a show of weak spiritual growth, prehaps one day they'll have a better understanding of grace, and know theres no need to attempt to earn it. But man made rules make people feel superior over other christians. How sad to add to what God has already said as if what he has said isn't good enough, human pride leads one to add to God's word man made rules, seek to live by what men sat instead of God, rather to please men then God.

 

I'd say she's got you pretty well pegged.

When you speak of God's Word, you mean only your shallow, peurile expositions thereof. Anyone who says differently than you, you dismiss as a legalist or a Pharisee, and you do so in a childish rant.

When you speak of grace, you mean only the manner in which you wish to be treated, not the manner in which you treat others.

I've got to interject here, because those who are more liberal are still insisting that unless others classify their more strict adherance to the Scriptures as mere "personal conviction," that others are still legalists.

CCM is a carnal form of worship. It's not just wrong for me. It's wrong for all of you. If you don't agree, it's your skin, not mine. But I'm not a legalist for saying so, unless I say that your disassociation with the form is required for salvation.

What I AM saying is this, I have a better understanding of the Scriptures than any of you who disagree with me. But then, you all are saying that too.