Legislation alert

Discussion in 'Politics' started by stilllearning, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    Hate Crime legislation,
    that will put pastors in jail for a mandatory “10 years”!

    (If they preach against homosexuality!)

    BEING VOTED ON “RIGHT NOW”:
    And president Obama, is anxious it sign it!


    Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009
    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1913/show

    If it passes the house, and the senate, IT WILL BE LAW!
     
  2. matt wade

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    Have you read the bill? It does not say anything about "will put pastors in jail for a mandatory “10 years”". This bill will do nothing of that sort.

    Now, with that said, it is a bad bill just as any "hate crime" legislation is. We also have laws on the books in regards to murder, assault, etc. There's no reason to change the sentencing or deal with the case different just because of the motive.
     
  3. Martin

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    Sorry StillLearning, but someone has either mislead you or you have not carefully read HR 1913.

    HR 1913 refers only to "a crime of violence" not "speech". The Bill clearly says that it refers to a person who, "willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person". The Bill directly states that "nothing in this Act shall be construed to prohibit the exercise of constitutionally-protected free speech". So this law defines a hate crime as an act of violence against a person because of their "actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim".

    Is this a stupid law? Yes. After all, all crimes of violence are hate crimes. However, as stupid as it maybe, this law says nothing about pastors who preach against homosexuality. You should research things more carefully before you post such claims.

    The Bill may be found here.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    It is only a matter of time.
     
  5. matt wade

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    Make sure you watch out for the boogeyman too OldRegular! :laugh:
     
  6. stilllearning

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    Here is what I found on page 8 of the bill.........

    “....willfully causes bodily injury to any person or,
    through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or
    incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to
    any person, because of the actual or perceived race,color, religion, or national origin of any person—
    ‘‘(A) shall be imprisoned not more than 10
    years, fined in accordance with this title, or
    both; and.....”


    A preacher who preaches that homosexuality("the actual or perceived") is a sin, and someone who hears the message does something to someone;
    "That preacher caused it":

    And in today's climate, they will give him the max-10years.
     
    #6 stilllearning, Apr 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2009
  7. matt wade

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    When then you have no idea what "willfully causes" means. "willfully causes" does not mean that you are responsible if someone else does something.
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    Not true if bartenders can be legally responsible for serving drinks to someone already over the legal limit if that person drives and kills someone. Your argument just flew the coop.
     
  9. OldRegular

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    You have an Eagle eye Lady Eagle!:applause:
     
  10. Martin

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    ==Certainly. The limiting of free speech and religion is coming. But this is not it.
     
  11. Martin

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    ==The passage clearly talks about "bodily injury" caused by a certain person. It says nothing about speech other than that it does not apply to speech. I think you are stretching a bit on this one.
     
    #11 Martin, Apr 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2009
  12. stilllearning

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    Hello Martin

    This legislation, is just a “foot in the door”.

    If it becomes law, the time will soon come when calling homosexuality a sin, will be considered a “hate crime”. (Whether your behind the pulpit or not!)
    --------------------------------------------------
    I don’t really care though. I will preach what the LORD tells me to, and not worry about it.

    But it is just a shame, to see this country be destroyed, like this.
     
  13. matt wade

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    No, my arguement did not fly the coop. We are talking about this particular piece of legislation. This particular piece of legislation has the following text in it:

    That means freedom of speech remains.

    Again, I stress that this is bad legislation. I hope it fails, but it does not mean that it will be illegal to preach against homosexuality.
     
  14. Surfer Joe

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    I think you need to meditate on the Scripture in your signature. :) Because this is not true.
     
  15. Surfer Joe

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    So is the law against murder just a "foot in the door", so that people will not be able to use whatever means necessary to protect their lives?
     
  16. Jedi Knight

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    "It is only a matter of time." Totally Agree! :type:
     
  17. Martin

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    ==It is only a matter of time before all of us Christians will have to choose between obeying God and obeying man. It is a shame, but it is coming. However this bill (refered to in the OP) is not it. This is a bill against violence, not words.
     
  18. stilllearning

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    Hi Surfer Joe

    You said......
    If you choose to believe that homosexuality is not a sin, that’s your right.

    But it is.
     
  19. tinytim

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    Right.. I agree.. this is not it..

    NOW IF a preacher makes the statement that we need to get rid of homosexuals, and someone kills one in the community, then that preacher may be charged....

    Preach against sin.. .Just don't incite murder.
     
  20. rbell

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    These are the reasons I think "hate crimes legislation" is such a bad idea...legally, philosophically, logically, and with regards to the rule of Law in the US...

    Hate crime legislation is stupid legislation...


    Hate crimes are a judicial train wreck because...

    1. They elevate the life of one person (be it black, gay, handicapped, left-handed, white, whatever) over another. Generally, the "empowered" party is worth less than the "powerless." ergo..."All men are created equal, but some are more equal than others." We found that repulsive in the 1960's...why should it not be repulsive now?
    2. They are essentially crimes of thought, which cannot be proven. Remember..."innocent until proven guilty," and "prove beyond a reasonable doubt?" Throw that out the window with hate crime bills...We can only prove crimes of action...and if we'd enforce the laws already there, we wouldn't have to crawl around inside someone's brain, looking for prejudices.
    3. They are unequally enforced. In Alabama, you will never see a black-on-white crime listed as a hate crime." The reverse is not true. I am for equal justice under the law. A white man who kills a black man should be penalized the same as if the race of the victim/perp were reversed.
    4. They needlessly clog up the justice system. If someone's on trial for life, why try separate the hate-crime separately?
    5. They begin erosion of rights: now instances of offensive speech is considered "hate crime." If you preach against homosexuality, get ready...you're next. It's true in other locales worldwide; it will be true here.
    6. They are, at their core, unneccessary. If you gave people who murdered, for instance, the death penalty, no hate crime legislation would be needed. If you castrated rapists, that would just about do it right there.
    7. "Hate crime" is itself a logical fallacy. Who ever commits "love crimes?" All crime comes from hate.
     

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