Legit questions for all

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by thjplgvp, May 13, 2006.

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  1. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp
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    If I am missing the point of these debates please instruct me nicely. :D

    As I read these threads and others that are similar if not identical I constantly ask myself these questions. Will this debate make a difference in my faith? Can I not love the KJV without being KJV only? If I use Strong’s instead of the original manuscripts in my personal study and see that a paraphrase of a verse or word allows my listener to better understand the text in question does that mean I am disloyal to my love of the KJV? :confused:

    Do I have to be in one “camp” (I dislike the term) or another? I enjoy the King James and it is my only bible but I take offense with the insinuation that I am a traitor to IB’s by one group because I use word studies (to the best of my ability) that show there are other words that can be used for clearer interpretation or that I am an ignorant Baptist because I use the KJV and don’t use other versions of scripture. [​IMG]

    Thanks for your time and feed back.
     
  2. TCassidy

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    Not in yours, but hopefully in the faith of the KJVOs.
    Yes! I love the KJV! I teach and preach only from the KJV. But I am not KJVO!
    No! It means you are doing exactly what the bible commands every preacher to do, "So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. Nehemiah 8:8.
    No!
    Both positions you mention represent the radical fringe of this issue. The radical KJVOs have a great fear that if they are not absolutely certain about what every word of God says and means that their weak faith will be destroyed. And the other fringe, the radical anti-KJVs (not anti-KJVOs) seem to think that every new thing that comes along is better than anything that ever existed before. Both radical fringe positions are wrong.
     
  3. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    thjplgvp,

    Most of the brothers and sisters in this forum would have no problem with your stand either way. I don't know of anyone that would call you ignorant because you choose to use the KJV exclusively. I know many who only use the KJV and see no need to use another translation. The KJV is a faithful translation and is more than adequate for us to know the heart of God and live the life we are called to live in Him.

    The clear problem in this forum is the constant attack on the Word of God because it is not in the KJV. I have a great problem when someone attacks my NKJV or some other legitimate version of the Bible as being corrupt, new age or occultic. The declaration of ignorance for these folks is not because they choose to use the KJV exclusively, but because they make ignorant claims against other versions of the Bible.

    Bro Tony
     
  4. Keith M

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    thjplgvp, what they said!

    Seriously, there is a HUGE difference in being what you describe and being KJVO. Most KJVOs support the false theory that only the KJV is the legitimate word of God for English-speaking people. They condemn all other versions that are not the KJV. The majority of KJVO adherants refuse to accept any other Bible version, even those based on the Textus Receptus, the Received Text which is the basis for the KJV. The mantra for many KJVOs is "What is different is not the same" and they think that a single word being different disqualifies a Bible version from being the word of God.

    What you say regarding your preference for the KJV means that you are not what is considered KJVO but you are KJVP (King James Version Preferred). There is absolutely nothing wrong with being KJVP. The problem lies with being KJVO and wanting to choose the Bible version that is right for everyone else while condemning and even blaspheming the word of God in any other translation than the KJV.

    BTW, I am not at all against the KJV - it is one of the three versions I use most frequently, along with the NKJV and the NASB. I am pro-KJV while being very anti-KJVO, as are many of the participants on this board.

    [ May 13, 2006, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Keith M ]
     
  5. Phillip

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    Thank you Dr. Cassidy. GREAT answer. Your intelligence of the subject matter overwhelms me. I enjoy your posts.

    Thank you,

    I know I have asked this before and it may be off track just a bit, but let me just quickly throw in the question. I cannot remember what you told me.

    Do you prefer the majority text to any of the versions of the TR? If not, which TR do you prefer?

    Finally, if the majority text is superior to the alternative, are there GOOD modern translations that use the majority text and are accurate at the same time?

    Would you consider the NKJV to be one of the best Modern Versions and if so, is it primarily because (even with its few weaknesses that you have told me about) it is based on the TR? Is there a better translation of texts that are superior in your view?

    Sorry thjplgvp, I was not trying to change the direction of your post, but some of the things just rang a bell that I wanted to have an answer without having to open a new thread just for one post and answer.

    Please feel free to continue discussing the KJV and the two "camps".

    I also agree with Dr. Cassidy. The KJV is a wonderful translation, very accurate, very rich in language style and just beautiful to read. What I, personally, get tired of is being called a "hater" of the KJV just because that I believe that there CAN be other translations of God's Word in English and there is absolutely NO scriptural evidence that we have to have one language and certainly why would God decide to make that perfect Bible in OUR language. Then you get to the REAL question and say---what happened to the REAL Bible before the KJV was translated?

    Dr. Cassidy says it so much better than I.
     
  6. Keith M

    Keith M
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    I agree, Phillip!

    "Doc" Cassidy is very good with words - he has a real way of expressing his thoughts. And he is very well-informed on just about anything one cares to ask him. "Doc" Cassidy, unlike some, is a great benefit to this board.
     
  7. DesiderioDomini

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    I think the OP shows a great deal of wisdom, and I disagree with him! Thats whats funny....if one actually has plain reason for their belief, even those who disagree will respect it.
     
  8. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp
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    Thanks for your responses. [​IMG]
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

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    I strongly disagree that KJVOs demonstrate "weak faith." Quite the contrary, they have an unusually large degree of faith in the promise that God would preserve His word. Jesus said that we are to live by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." KJVOs place much faith in the belief that the KJV best and most accurately represents (in English) the very words of God.
     
  10. Askjo

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    I strongly disagree that KJVOs demonstrate "weak faith." Quite the contrary, they have an unusually large degree of faith in the promise that God would preserve His word. Jesus said that we are to live by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." KJVOs place much faith in the belief that the KJV best and most accurately represents (in English) the very words of God. </font>[/QUOTE]Dr. Cassidy, I stand with Pastor Bob because I agree what he said.

    Pastor Bob, excellent answer! [​IMG]
     
  11. robycop3

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    Pastor Bob:I strongly disagree that KJVOs demonstrate "weak faith."

    Well, it's certainly faith in a man-made doctrine. It's not found whatsoever in the KJV itself.

    Quite the contrary, they have an unusually large degree of faith in the promise that God would preserve His word.

    So does every true Christian.

    Jesus said that we are to live by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

    Gotta use common sense with this one. Jesus spoke millions & millions of words that weren't preserved. However, every word He WANTED preserved IS preserved.

    There's a vast difference in the Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, & English languages. Often, there's not an exact English equivalent to a word or phrase in those older languages, or they have multiple meanings in English. None of that is lost on GOD. He presents/provides His word to us AS HE CHOOSES. And there's simply NO EVIDENCE that He's limited to just the KJV in English.


    KJVOs place much faith in the belief that the KJV best and most accurately represents (in English) the very words of God.

    But it's BLIND faith and not BIBLICAL faith. In other words, it's GUESSWORK. Biblical faith consists of SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE. (Hebrews 11:1) The KJVO myth has neither of these.

    However, that does NOT make one wrong to prefer to use the KJV alone. But dissing every other version and/or telling someone else they're in error for using another version or versions is *WRONG**!
     
  12. gb93433

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    You must be in one camp to follow Jesus. He was viewed as a traitor to the Jews being in God's camp. If you are faithful to God most likely you will get shot at by the dogmatists in both camps. There is only one camp I want to be dogmatically in. That is God's camp not just what others think is right but rather the truth. Remember the Jews thought thought they were right and were actually wrong. That is one of the very reasons why we must study and be obedient in the application of God's word. Study alone will not get us there. It is the obedience to God's commands that will keep us on the path and from steering too far off.
     
  13. robycop3

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    thjplgvp: As I read these threads and others that are similar if not identical I constantly ask myself these questions. Will this debate make a difference in my faith?[/i]

    It shouldn't. Nothing nor no one can come between you and JESUS unless you allow it.

    Can I not love the KJV without being KJV only?

    Of course. You can use the KJV alone if you so choose, and be perfectly correct.


    If I use Strong’s instead of the original manuscripts in my personal study and see that a paraphrase of a verse or word allows my listener to better understand the text in question does that mean I am disloyal to my love of the KJV? [Confused]

    NO! God's word is God's word. Not everyone is proficient in Elizabethan English, and if an explanation is in order, please use it insteada allowing your audience to be left wondering.

    Do I have to be in one “camp”

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    While I am quite against the KJVO myth, I'm certainly not against the KJV. I carry several Bible versions when doing evangelistical work door-to-door or in nursing homes, and use the version(s) my audience prefers. The old English is no prob for me, but when teaching from the KJV I stand ready to decipher if necessary.

    (I dislike the term) or another? I enjoy the King James and it is my only bible but I take offense with the insinuation that I am a traitor to IB’s by one group because I use word studies (to the best of my ability) that show there are other words that can be used for clearer interpretation or that I am an ignorant Baptist because I use the KJV and don’t use other versions of scripture. [Tear]

    Brother, you can pick up your KJV with full confidence that it's a valid Bible, and if anyone doesn't like it, they can jolly well lump it. You answer to GOD, and not man in matters of worship and service to GOD.

    The problem isn't with the KJV...it's with the KJVO MYTH that declares the KJV is the ONLY valid English version, and in extreme cases, the only valid Bible in ANY language, period. Please, avoid that false doctrine like a dose of anthrax.

    No, you have every right to use the KJV alone, and, if you wish, any other valid version also. If your choice is the KJV alone, Hallelujah! But if in the future you decide to use another version or versions, well, Hallelujah to that also!

    The MOST IMPORTANT thing is that one READS AND HEEDS the Bible, regardless of the version!

    I hope you keep right on going with the KJV, and let the critics go play in the traffic. And I might suggest you invest in obtaining a repro AV 1611 if you haven't already done so. IMO, it's the best single tool a Bible student using the KJV can have.
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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    Most people who wander into this
    Bible Versions/Translations Forum don't bother to
    read the information pinned to the top
    of the front page of the Forum:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/2672.html


    Others seem to miss the Inerrancy poll:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/2789.html?

    Here is how a vast majority of the users of this Forum
    define" Bible Inerrancy"

    3. The Bible is inerrant in the original autographs 63% (34)

    If this isn't what you believe, then you may feel uncomfortable here.

    Personally I think that every version of the Bible, God's Holy
    Written Word, that you can read should be studied - for each
    individually and all collectively are the Inerrant Written
    Word of God.
     
  15. David J

    David J
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    "I strongly disagree that KJVOs demonstrate "weak faith." Quite the contrary, they have an unusually large degree of faith in the promise that God would preserve His word. Jesus said that we are to live by "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." KJVOs place much faith in the belief that the KJV best and most accurately represents (in English) the very words of God." Pastor Bob

    It's misguided faith that would be serve Christ by better actually spreading the gospels rather than defending/spreading a man made myth with no Scriptural support.

    A KJVOist would have a hard time with a JW if the JW asks for Scriptural support for KJVOism. I've seen this happen live when I was KJVO. My KJVO partner at the time was stunned and so was I! You can't teach something as a doctrine or an absolute truth if you have zero Scriptural support. Sometimes those who are caught up in cults(using man made traditions found no where in the Scriptures) like the JW's will ask for proof from you and if you can't produce it then in their eyes you are in no better shape then they are.

    KJVOist should think about what I'm saying.Whats more important KJVOism man made myths or the truth? KJVOism has no Scriptural support therefore it is not the truth.

    Being KJV preferred is not being KJVO. The "O" is where I have a problem and the "O" is a man made tradition.

    Colossians 2:6-23 (NASB)

    6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
    7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
    8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
    9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
    10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
    11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
    12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
    13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
    14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
    15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
    16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
    17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
    18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
    19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
    20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
    21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
    22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
    23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
     
  16. Pastor_Bob

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    Aren't we commanded to walk by faith and not by sight? Your assessment of biblical faith is not the faith that the Bible speaks of. See Romans 8:24,24 & II Corinthians 4:18

    No one is trying to limit God. The KJV is the best and most accurate representation of the originals in the English language. How is that limiting God?
     
  17. standingfirminChrist

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    I, like Pastor Bob and AskJo, will believe that my God was able to preserve His perfect Word in the Englist language through the ones who translated the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Chaldean into the KJB.
     
  18. william s. correa

    william s. correa
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    If I use Strong’s instead of the original manuscripts in my personal study and see that a paraphrase of a verse or word allows my listener to better understand the text in question does that mean I am disloyal to my love of the KJV? This quote Shows you that he is probably trying to become the next televangelist! [personal attacks against board members deleted- attacks against Biblical manuscripts and other translations besides the KJV deleted.]

    [ May 15, 2006, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Phillip ]
     
  19. Bro Tony

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    If that is your belief william, Askjo, SFIC and Pastor Bob, then that is your belief. But your belief has no basis in biblical fact. I join with you all that God is able to preserve His Word for us in English. I have read it and received it in the KJV, NKJV, NIV, RSV, NASB and I am greatful for God's preservation. I will not join those of you who attack God's preserved Word because it is not the KJV. There is no demonstration of biblical faith in doing that, to the contrary it is placing your belief in a particular version because of personal preference, many of which have no basis in study or understanding from the original languages. What is sad is that you have convinced yourselves that your preference is based on more than just your own experience or likes, and in doing so you have made yourself rather than the Bible your final authority.

    Bro Tony
     
  20. standingfirminChrist

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    yer right Tony,

    We do have a personal preference to the KJV. But the reason my preference is KJV is because I have found far more errors in all the other versions.
     
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