liberal Christianity

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by massdak, Nov 20, 2002.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    is that an oxymoron or what?
    but in the main, i see some even on these boards who have a universal doctrine, some believe that even without knowing about or ever hearing the gospel will be saved. please provide scripture for this type of thinking. if another gospel is being mentioned on these boards, i sure hope the moderators will let those who warn them who preach anything besides Christ and HIM only for salvation and that those who do this, let them at least be marked and avoided so others can be warned of a false gospel.
    Would the apostle Paul do less?
     
  2. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    I've actually always considered them synonymous [​IMG] .

    As for universalism, it doesn't really go hand-in-hand with liberalism. It's an unusual doctrine that can show up among liberals and conservatives.

    Joshua
     
  3. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    A conservative what? :confused: A conservative liberal?
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv
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    My two cents: Allowing only conservative Christianity is a form of legalism.
     
  5. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    Rev. G.

    I did a study of universalism a few years ago, and you'd be surprised. There are some socially and politically conservative Christians who do hold to varying forms of universalism. It can happen.

    Even Origen postulated a type of universalism (that is that a God of love would not design a punishment that was not ultimately redemptive in nature).

    Joshua
     
  6. KenH

    KenH
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    So all non-Jews in before Jesus' first advent were lost? And all of the billions who have never heard the gospel since then are lost? I am not saying that definitely some of these are saved, but I don't think we have a right to limit God's grace in that way.

    Romans 2:14-16(NASB)
    14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

    Romans 2:25-26(NASB)
    25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
    26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?


    Ken

    [ November 20, 2002, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  7. massdak

    massdak
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    why in the world would you want to study universalism?
    why study anything that is against scripture.
     
  8. massdak

    massdak
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    So all non-Jews in before Jesus' first advent were lost? And all of the billions who have never heard the gospel since then are lost? I am not saying that definitely some of these are saved, but I don't think we have a right to limit God's grace in that way.

    Romans 2:14-16(NASB)
    14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
    15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
    16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

    Romans 2:25-26(NASB)
    25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
    26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?


    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]i believe before Christ came, those like abraham were those who believed God and were save as abraham was.
    Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH
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    I agree. They believed God without hearing the Law of Moses. And what about after Jesus came? What about those who believe God without hearing the gospel?

    Ken
     
  10. massdak

    massdak
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    I agree. They believed God without hearing the Law of Moses. And what about after Jesus came? What about those who believe God without hearing the gospel?

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]i believe what the Bible says about that &gt;&gt;&gt; acts 4:12 i believe that they must hear the gospel, and believe in Christ. romans says they have no excuse.
     
  11. Rev. G

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    Yes, he even went so far as to say that the devil would be redeemed. I've read Origen. However, his unorthodox views were not only rejected by men such as Augustine and Jerome, but fought against. Origen's universalism has never been accepted by the Church as "orthodox."

    Rev. G
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
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    So, even if they believe God like Abraham, without ever hearing the gospel, you believe they are lost?

    Ken

    [ November 20, 2002, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  13. massdak

    massdak
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    So, even if they believe God like Abraham, without ever hearing the gospel, you believe they are lost?

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]i still have to refer you to Act 4:12   Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


    i believe Gods elect will hear the gospel and be saved
     
  14. KenH

    KenH
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    Are you a doctrines of grace(nickname Calvinism) believer?

    Ken
     
  15. massdak

    massdak
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    Are you a doctrines of grace(nickname Calvinism) believer?

    Ken
    </font>[/QUOTE]i would say so. and i enjoy much reading spurgeon his book all of grace is free to read online.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH
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    [​IMG]

    Ken
     
  17. Baptist Believer

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    The obvious answer is to understand the doctrine(s) and determine if it is true or false.

    You don't know it is against scripture unless you study it and read what scripture has to say.

    If you think you already understand all truth without having to look at scripture, you don't really believe the Bible very much or trust that the Spirit will guide you into all truth.
     
  18. Rev. G

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    This is a VERY good statement! I agree! I have studied the cults, not because I wanted to join them, but because I wanted to win them over from their position.

    Rev. G
     
  19. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan
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    What does this have to do with what Joshua is saying?

    From your tone, I perceive that anyone who doesn't come up with the same interpretations of scripture as yourself is unbiblical and a "liberal," and by liberal you mean "wrong." Once you state it this way, the labels cease to function in any way outside your narrowly defined fantasy world. Not to meantion the arrogance involved.

    When I read the gospels, I don't get the impression that Jesus was a religious fundamentalist. He radically questioned the accepted interpretations of the religious life for his time. This isn't to say that he threw out the baby with the bath, but he was no Al Mohler either (by "Al Mohler" I mean "wrong" [​IMG] [​IMG] ).
     
  20. massdak

    massdak
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    You don't know it is against scripture unless you study it and read what scripture has to say.

    If you think you already understand all truth without having to look at scripture, you don't really believe the Bible very much or trust that the Spirit will guide you into all truth.
    </font>[/QUOTE]i never claimed to understand all truth without Gods word. but i also dont think it is prudent to study false cults to rightly divide the scriptures. reading Gods word one should know universalism is a false gospel. why study error? does study of error and half truths show you the way?
     

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