Liberal Kirsten Powers Converted

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    You must read this article. If you ever watch Fox News you will find this woman on there as an analyst. I have watched her for years.

    She testifies about how grace overcame her.


    http://gospellightminute.wordpress....eism-to-christianity-gospel-light-minute-101/

    That is all Calvinism is saying. We are saying that this is how it works.

    And I'll tell you why folks like Willis and Amy are switching- every Christian KNOWS this is how it works.

    We all KNOW that we didn't go looking for God and that if he had not absolutely apprehended us, we would never have come to Him.
     
  2. BaptistJG

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    Unfortunately that is not all Calvinism is saying. Otherwise A lot of us would agree that God desires to seek and save that which is lost... I dont understand why its either all or nothing for Calvinists. Either your all in, or your a semi pelagian, or at the nicest an Arminian. She claims in her write up that she had someone weigh the evidence against her and she said it would be silly not to accept it. At some point there was some sort of 'decision' making in the process. Does that make it any less amazing? No, Does that make it any less God centered No. It is fully Gods work and fully amazing to hear testimonies. However there is more to Calvinism then just saying "God pursues lost people" or something along those lines, as I don't think anyone would doubt that. ACTUALLY to be completely fair, I think the Calvy would take more issue with that because then God could seek everyone (do you see how this collapses?). Then we start bringing in doctrines of election and predestination to try and patch this bridge up.

    Furthermore, a lot of the Calvinists that I listen to may not even like this testimony. Why? Because she doesn't say that she repented, that is like the magic word for the calvys. Now I agree its important and if your a leader or going through discipleship with someone you should talk to them about what that is and see where they are at, but many of the people I listen to in the mainstream 'evangelicalism' if you will, seek the word Repentance as the new version of the sinners prayer.


    I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't there's the other non-cal's on here who can use much more sophisticated points than mine, but that's my .02 in the bucket.

    much love
    Jordan.
     
  3. Luke2427

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    She expresses that she was overcome- that she could not BUT believe.

    That is Calvinism.

    And it is true about ANY type of belief.

    You don't CHOOSE to believe- you are persuaded to believe. Your beliefs are things that you obtained quite passively.

    Do you BELIEVE in gravity?

    Did you CHOOSE to believe in gravity?

    No. You have no choice but to believe what you have been overwhelmingly persuaded to believe. You are passive as it pertains to your belief in gravity.

    Belief is not a choice- it is something that happens TO us.

    Non-cals believe in salvation by grace through CHOICE.

    Calvinists believe in salvation by grace through faith.

    Calvinists are right because they believe what the Bible teaches about salvation.

    Salvation is not by grace through choice and faith is NOT a choice.

    Salvation is by grace through FAITH. You believe what you HAVE BEEN PERSUADED is true.
     
    #3 Luke2427, Jul 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2013
  4. DrJamesAch

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    Not only is that not all Calvinism is saying, that's not really what Kirsten Powers said either! What Calvinist would say the following had anything to do with their salvation:

    "Tim Keller had made such a strong case, that I began to think it’s not even smart to reject this. It just doesn’t seem like a good intellectual decision."

    Now Calvinists are starting to act like Charismatics in trying to use experience to validate their doctrine. If God's grace is irresistible, then why did it take so long to change her mind? Before she had "no choice" she admitted that this process began by a compelling sermon that should could not did MAKE SENSE to reject INTELLECTUALLY. Thus her testimony is in conflict with Calvinism's description of the salvific process.
     
  5. pinoybaptist

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    who is Willis, and who is Amy ?
     
  6. convicted1

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    I am Willis. :D :wavey: :love2: :)
     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    jolly good.
    hello, there, willis.
    :thumbsup::love2::wavey:
    had to delete your smilies.
    dumb program says it is mine. lol.
     
  8. pinoybaptist

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    so the Holy Spirit was stupidly telling those who will in the future read the Bible to do as the Bereans did, which is to search the Scripture (use their intellect) and see if what they were taught were indeed Scriptural, right ?
     
  9. Edward63

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    Luke, thank you so much for that link. I have an immigrant friend who God pulled out of Buddhism into his kingdom and he is also a political junkie. He will love reading this about Kirsten Powers. By the way, my immigrant friend is an example of being touched by God Almighty and effectually drawn before he ever heard the gospel message. God so clearly sought out my friend and caused him to seek the one, true, Supreme Being. Thankfully, he too was able to be in a Bible believing Presbyterian church to learn the saving faith of the Bible, rather than the whims and distortions of men! I am a Particular Baptist, NOT a Calvinist, but I identify with the experience of Kirsten and my friend... it is so well illustrative of clear Bible doctrine.
     
  10. Edward63

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    Very well said, my brother! It is either all of grace and God gets the praise, or God must share some credit with man and man's decisions.

    “that no flesh should glory before God. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.” (1Co 1:29-31 ASV)
     
  11. webdog

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    Now let's use that same reasoning with sin.
     
  12. webdog

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    Besides the blasphemy that Calvinism is the gospel, we now get Calvinism is the Holy Spirit.

    Why can't what happened be the continued her work of the Holy Spirit on her heart and not man's systematic theology? Pure arrogance.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    Yep................
     
  14. Amy.G

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    I'm Amy! Remember me? I've been here forever! :laugh:

    Willis is Convicted1. He likes to poke fun at me for being so old I'm a dinosaur! LOL
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    Similar to my own salvation experience in a way. I was forced to go to church as a child and I always sat in the pew closest to the door so I could get out quicker. However, on day in the summer of 1963 I was minding my own business sitting in the pew next to the door as always when something began to happen inside me that I was not in control of. I remember feeling like an unstable bowl of jello, for the first time in my life I knew the preacher was talking about me, for the first I time I could see myself a sinner before God and I could see that Jesus Christ was my only hope of salvation. When God was finished in me, a team of wild horses could not have prevented me from publicly professing Christ and I did. I no longer sat at the door. I no longer disliked church, dislike reading the scriptures. I was a changed man and I did not do the changing but was changed from the inside out and I liked it and have liked it ever since.
     
  16. convicted1

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    :jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:
     
  17. DrJamesAch

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    Well according to Calvies no unsaved person can seek God. Plus the highlight portion of my comment shows that she stated her intellect was involved which is also contrary to Calvinism, especially since the display of her intellect in debating the sermon occurred before she was said she was saved.
     
  18. DrJamesAch

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    Funny about that, if it was the Holy Spirit according to her testimony SHE RESISTED AND REJECTED IT WHILE HE WAS "CALLING" HER!

    But notice the trend here lately where Calvinists are starting to act like Charismatics in relying on their experience to validate their theology. Like I predicted long ago, emergent church here they come.
     
  19. Inspector Javert

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    Numerous patent Arminians or non-Cals utilize similar verbiage in their conversions. In C.S. Lewis' "Surprised by Joy"....the same concept of a compelling (and indeed almost irresistible, or so it seems) drawing from the Holy Spirit is experienced. Lewis describes his coversion to Christianity as him being "dragged kicking and screaming". Indeed, the gospel, when the Spirit is indeed calling is VERY compelling. That's an experience we all share, I think. But it doesn't exactly demonstrate the proof of Calvinism.

    There is indeed a "power" in the gospel message when the Spirit calls you. I, as an Arminian do accept that there is of course a "general" call to salvation, and ALSO a personal one...wherein Jesus stands at your PERSONAL DOOR and knocks. He knocks quite loudly actually, and it's awfully hard to ignore it.

    But that blessed compelling feeling doesn't prove the "irresistibility" of the gospel as the Calvinist would teach it. I also remember "white-knuckling" the pew in front of me in defiance and resistance of some very strong conviction from the Spirit as well.
     
  20. The Biblicist

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    Yeah, we will let the Arminians just beat their heads against the anvil of God's Word. They hate the truth of God's word so intensely there is no reason to even engage some of them at all. Like throwing pearls before swine, they just turn and rend you.

    We all know that when God seeks the sinner the sinner will seek the Savior. We all know that the scriptures teach "whosoever will" not "whosoever won't." We all know that no man comes to the Son by faith except the Father draws "him" and that "him" will be raised up because the Father gives only to the Son to give eternal life only those he draws.
     

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