Liberty Removes Ergun Caner

Paul proclaimed himself to be the "chiefest of sinners". If that's true, wouldn't that automatically make Caner better.

 

Of course Caner is better than Paul, Caner did nothing wrong....at least according to these folks:

This matter is behind us and we praise God that Dr. Caner is exonerated as he is retained at Liberty on faculty.

http://sbctoday.com/2010/06/25/dr-ergun-caner-investigation-completed/

 

That 'apology' is mysterious. He could very well have apologized that Liberty had to be brought into deal with his mess. Caner could be sorry that Liberty had to be brought under scrunity.

I sincerely doubt that he is repentant about anything.A few days before the committee's decision, a female student said that Ergun Caner was explaining his innocence in the matter.

This thing will not be over until Caner comes forward and sincerely confesses to the public -- Christian and non-Christian -- especially Muslim -- that he lied repeatedly for nearly a decade. He deliberately deceived folks. It's not a matter of misspeaking and memory lapses.

Liberty has seemingly done a gracious thing in merely demoting him. But the conduct of Liberty throughout this whole sordid mess has been shameful.

Thomas Road Baptist church is not into church discipline. Pastor Falwell supports Ergun to the point of downplaying biblical integrity.Ergun will be speaking there and elsewhere soon enough. And the Christian community as well as the unredeemed world just shakes its head.

His brother Emir is next. He has lied too -- but just not as brazenly as Ergun. And he has not stepped up to acknowledge anything regarding this whole deal.

These are sad times for modern professing Christianity. But Ergun goes on his merry way talking about donuts being holy on his latest twitter entry.

Churches with an ounce of common sense and biblical discernment should not allow Mr. Caner to deliver any messages until he makes a clean sweep of his lies.

I trust he will do the righjt thing soon. He still has not been willing to do what the Bible tells him to do.

 

Beware of false teachers.

 

It is mysterious to everyone. Like I said, I don't even think he apologized for anything. The statement said he apologized, but it did not elaborate. He needs to come clean. The statement of the board was couched in adeliberately unclear manner.

He has not. That's what he needs to do.

You can't be that clueless SN.

I read no magazine about Caner. I doubt there is a magazine regarding the subject at this time.

The board can't do anything at this point. They made their determination. It's now up to Mr. Caner to come forward.

Well, you are wrong there. I predict that a number of churches will have him preach/lecture in the near future.

 

You are probably righjt.

 

In what way, exactly, was Liberty's actions "shameful"? I believe they handled the whole mess about perfectly. Do you expect a university to just throw out professors at the first sign of complaint?

These criticisms of Liberty are quite petty. James White is also doing it. You said (and White also said) that Liberty's statement was vague. Well, it is only vague if you have a 3rd grade vocabulary. It would be wrong for Liberty to say "Ergun deliberately lied", because such a thing is impossible to determine (even if we are 99 percent sure). Only Ergun knows for sure. So Liberty saying Ergun's statements of fact were "self contradictory" is about as stern as they can get, without violating a basic biblical truth that we cannot judge other's hearts and intentions.

Liberty did the right thing, in every instance. Even Town's statement at the beginning of this mess is understandable. They have surely recieved thousands of unfounded complaints about Ergun. In his mind, when this first came out, it was probably just another one of those. Liberty took their time, investigated, and did everything by the book. They removed Ergun as Dean, and gave him a measly one year contract as a professor. I know some of you would love to see him and his family thrown out on the street, but...

 

Imagine that. Whites Criticisms ending up on this board. And all of the pathetic.

Bingo! Retribution plain and simple.

 

I agree that Liberty has handled this well. They clearly like Ergun and I am sure that it was painful for them to have to deal with this, but they had no choice.
Besides, I always thought that the problem was that Liberty could not have a Seminary President with a record of dubious honesty...they have taken care of that now. The ball is in Ergun's court.

 

I disagree, and for two reasons. First, LU could have said that Dr. Caner made false statements about his past. You can say that without knowing someone's intent. What they did say was that the comments he made failed to be consistent, and while that is true, it does not go anywhere near the full truth. There is nothing ethical about half-truths.

Second, while they did the right thing to remove him as President and Dean, they did the wrong thing when they retained him as one who will train pastors. How is it "the right thing" to employ one to train pastors after he is found biblically unqualified to serve in the very position for which he will train others?

1 Tim. 3.2, "an overseer must be above reproach..." - clearly Caner has brought reproach upon himself.

 

Stating that he made "self-contradictory" statements is correct, and more accurate. He did not just make false statements about his past; he made self-contradictory statements (which is worse, for those who understand high school english!)

The goal of discipline is not to paint the worst possible picture of people, and kick them while they are down. Liberty has told the truth, in exactly the right way.

First, the 1 Timothy quote, is about Pastors, not about University professors.

Second, you have no idea if Liberty is still actually using him to train pastors. He has, as of yet, not been assigned to any classes. He is not listed, to my knowledge, on any course schedule, nor have I been able to find his name listed in the fall intensives (he normally teaches Apologetics intensives). He was given a contract for one year. It seems like Liberty is doing the gracious (and dare I say, Christian) thing, and allowing the man time to find another job, without being outright fired.

 

No, not really. It makes it appear that Caner merely failed to be consistent in his testimony. What he did was worse.

I love the little jabs you throw in. 'English' ought to begin with a capitalized 'e', though. . And no, self-contradictory statements is not worse than false statements, just less clear.

If you say so... (though I thought you said 'self-contradictory' is worse???) I think they made it sound as benign as possible, to the detriment of the truth. And speaking the truth is not necessarily kicking them while they are down.

Right, that is why I said he ought to be at least qualified to be a pastor if he is to train them.

It is not a far leap to assume that a Seminary professor will train pastors. I thought your previous idea of moving him to the university was brilliant.

 

Not at all. "False statements" could mean that he just misspoke. "Self Contradictory" statements, means that he was telling different things to different people! Much worse!

I do not bother proofreading DB posts. Wait, "DB" is not a word!

That is certainly not true. Self Contradictory means that he said different things at different times. Saying "false" statements, could mean absolutely anything. Did he misspeak? Remember incorrectly? Did he bump his head?

"Self Contradictory" is very clear.

Some people would have Liberty say "Ergun Caner deliberately lied..", which would be wrong, unless Ergun has admitted as much.

A "Detriment" to the truth, would be making an unclear statement like "False statements", which could mean anything. He did not just make "False" statements. He made self contradictory ones (which yes, is worse.)

Really? Why is that? Maybe if he was teaching Bible, or how to preach, or something. Do you hold Algebra teachers to the same ethical standards? Considering that you have to have a Undergrad degree for admission, a lot of unethical people have ALREADY been training the Pastors!

It would be. And frankly, we don't know what is happening yet, as far as if he will actually be teaching, and where. He is not on any schedule that I can find.

 

Your semantic distinction is incorrect. One can also inadvertently make self-contradictory statements. In fact, the same LU statement on Caner which says he made factual statements that are self-contradictory later calls these self-contradictory statements misstatements. The intent behind the wording of LU's statement seems to be to soften the nature of the offense, not bring additional clarity.

Again, your distinction requires that one cannot inadvertently make self-contradictory statements. Was it your high-school English teacher who told you this?

I disagree (in general). If the evidence shows conclusively that a falsehood was committed then it is not wrong to call it that, even if the offender denies it.

 

The Liberty statement also failed to state that Caner was president of the seminary. It only stated that he was the dean. I believe this was also an attempt to soften the blow and LU's image. They did not renew his contract as dean.

The reality is that they did not renew his contract as president and dean.

BTW, Caner was not fired. He did not resign. He accepted a contract to be a professor. He merely had a contract as "dean" not renewed.

Nice.

The statement also failed to address Caner's lack of knowledge with regard to basic Islam. He certainly misled others into thinking he had an experiential grounding in Islam. His statements about basic Islam prove otherwise. But this part of his story LU needed to preserve at all costs. Yes, Caner is an ex-Muslim in the same sense that a Catholic child raised by a Lutheran parent who converts to evangelicalism is an ex-Catholic.

LU did not and could not address Caner's ignorance of basic Islam, such as the shahada. Caner is an ex-Muslim, but he misled others into believing he was a devout, practicing Muslim who knew the ins and outs of Islam. This is a fabrication of the truth and might be the most egregious mistruth spoken by Caner. He simply is not who he claimed to be.

 

I believe the problem runs deeper than you're seeing. Hence my concern not so much for what Caner said and did for he is but merely a product of the Falwell-Towns philosophy of compromise-for-bigness that continues to be the guiding light of the LBU administration.

I just heard this week Falwell Jr. on the Glenn Beck radio show bragging about the size of LU and Beck thanking Falwell for "taking the heat" for having a Mormon (Beck) speak during graduation ceremonies. This is so far away from the old Liberty Bible Institute and the fundamentals of the faith and separation from apostacy once so highly touted by Falwell and company.