List your best/worst popes.

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by mioque, Oct 6, 2003.

  1. mioque

    mioque
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    Considering the current interest in the pope around here. I figured that the following might be fun.
    List your personal top 3 of the best popes andthe worst popes.
    6 ground rules.
    -Include a little explanation with each pope to tell us why the man in question was good or bad.
    -If you can't say anything specific (good or bad) about at least 3 popes don't participate.
    -If you just want to drop by to say that all popes are evil, .. :mad: STAY AWAY :mad:
    -Only listing your 3 worst (or best) popes is on the other hand perfectly fine, just as long as you post specific reasons why those 3 individuals are according to you the 3 worst (best) of the lot.
    -Don't include Peter in your list, popes are after all the Vicarius Petri (the guy who keeps Peter's bishops seat warm).
    -The popes of the Coptic church count as popes, don't include Mark the evangelist in your list, Coptic popes are after all the Vicarius Marci (the guy who keeps Mark's bishops seat warm).
     
  2. mioque

    mioque
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    Worst
    1. Sergius III, Who became pope by having the previous pope (Leo V) murdered.
    2. Alexander VI, What can one say of Rodrigo Borgia? Greed, Sex and Nepotism. Father of Cesare and Lucretia Borgia. This is a family friendly website so I won't mention the details. Allthough rumour sometimes has it that Rodrigo got extremely 'friendly' [​IMG] with his daughter.
    3. Paulus IV, he locked up the jews of Rome in a ghetto and forced them to wear silly distinctive headgear, inventor of the index of forbidden books, his response to the Reformation consisted of brutal repression and opposing practically all attempts to improve the catholic church.
     
  3. mioque

    mioque
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    Best
    1. Paulus VI, Strong opponent of abortion in the days that the Southern Baptist Convention was basically pro-choiche, ended the whole "pope as a king notion" by giving up most of the pomp and circumstance of the papacy, worked very hard to remove the bad blood between the Anglican and Eastern-Orthodox churches and the Catholic church
    2. Leo I, Stopped both Attila the Hun and Genserik king of the vandals from burning down Rome and slaughtering it's inhabitants. Major force in the events leading up to Chalcedon, where his views on the natures of Christ were adopted.
    3. Leo XIII, Writer of Rerum Novarum, the encyclical that turned the Bible into THE weapon against Communism and the abuse of Capitalism.
    Also there is ofcourse Leo's cocaine habit* and the enormous collection of pompous kitsch he gathered to fill the gaping hole Napoleon carved into the papal sacristy.

    *He drank wine made out of Coca leaves for health reasons.
     
  4. The Harvest

    The Harvest
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    Worst: John Paul II -- why you ask? because he is still living.
     
  5. GraceSaves

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    I do not wish to confuse your statement, so I'll aks you to clarify what you mean by that, as it's obvious that one can easily take that to be an incredibly hate-filled statement.
     
  6. mioque

    mioque
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    Harvest
    Your post has been reported to the moderators.
     
  7. The Harvest

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    I do not wish to confuse your statement, so I'll aks you to clarify what you mean by that, as it's obvious that one can easily take that to be an incredibly hate-filled statement. </font>[/QUOTE]that's precisely the way i meant it. that man has been responsible for sending millions to hell with his false doctrines.
     
  8. The Harvest

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    ok
     
  9. Kathryn

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    Best John Paul II for his shepherding of the flock for over 20 years and saintly life and example. His love of Jesus Christ and the gospel have brought a renewal and evangelization that is only just beginning. 20 years is a drop in the bucket in Church history.

    Pius XII for all he did to protect the Jews during the Holocaust especially in Italy. Likewise his love for Christ, the gospel, and the Church is shown in his life and works. He leaves a legacy of goodwill by the people he helped including my sister’s Jewish brother- in- law Charles Najbergier, who along with many other Jews, at the urging of Pius XII was sheltered in a convent in France for 3 years. Pius XII sheltered within his private residence and the Vatican many Jews. At his urging monasteries and convents hid Jews and endangered their own lives. Many clergy and Catholics were put to death for helping Jews and speaking out.

    These two are my personal favorite, and examples of true servants of servants. Cardinal Arinze is my hope for the next Pope. Likewise, I see here a very saintly man who lives and teaches the gospel.

    God Bless
     
  10. GraceSaves

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    For a Bible-only guy, you must have missed the part where Jesus said to love thy enemy. I don't remember Jesus wishing anyone was dead.
     
  11. mioque

    mioque
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    Kathryn
    I can't pm you, so here is a repost of what happened when our sundayschool visited the Catharijne Convent looking for Vicarius Filii Dei on papal tiara's on september 27.

    The great outing. [​IMG]
    11.00 We arrive at the museum
    The staff of this fine institution look a little shocked at the sight of 30 underage visitors.
    The catharijne Convent is in the middle of a huge reorganization, so large sections of the museum are closed down. Many of the pupils are rejoicing at that bit of news.
    11.05 I have great difficulty convincing anybody that the first tiara they see is a real one, it apparently doesn't look expensive enough. (and where are the words that are supposed to be on it)
    11.10 me and the kids are on the whole suitably impressed by the grandeur of the items on display, everybody else thinks it is pompous kitsch.
    11.15 Diane (7) is so impressed when I explain to her what a monstrans is for that she is ready to convert, the adults in our group are getting more nervous every minute.
    11.20 we see one of the shoes of pope Leo XIII and find out that the heads of convents visiting the Vatican were supposed to kiss his foot. :eek:
    11.25 one of the other tiara's in the exhibition is spotted, the one that looks like a spaceship.
    Once again it is decided that it is not a real one. In a sense that is true, it is a replica of the original that can be seen in Washington D.C.
    11.30 we get to see the hammer that is used to find out if the pope is truly dead (yes they hit him on the head with it if they need to find out)
    11.35 the last tiara in the exhibition is finally found, according to the kids there can be no doubt it's the real one. No Vicarius Filii Dei on it alas. A small riot breaks out. :D I get blaimed ofcourse [​IMG]
    11.50 I have relocated myself with some of the minors to a quieter section of the museum, there is a section where you can listen to fragments of sermons from famous Dutch preachers, but the replica of a Dutch living room from the 1950's one half filled with protestant furniture and items the other half filled with the Roman Catholic equivalent is considered more interesting.
    11.55 the relic chamber, bits of dead saints wrapped in reliquaries, always fun. [​IMG]
    12.00 I'm in the middle of telling the tale of how Leo XIII cocaine use influenced Rerum Novarum, when I hear we are leaving.
    All in all I and the youngsters thought it was a successfull visit, sadly enough some of the grownups are less pleased and for some reason are blaming me :D [​IMG]
     
  12. Kathryn

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    Mioque:
    Thanks for the report, I really enjoyed it. It sounded like a great trip. How about leading a Baptist tour of the Vatican this summer? [​IMG]

    Do many Baptists visit the Holy Land?

    God Bless
     
  13. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    I remember visiting the Catacombs of San Callisto in Rome and witnessing the room where the first 35 bishops of Rome were buried and the rooms where Masses were celebrated, and the American Evangelical Protestants in our tour group were wide-eyed the whole time. It was like I was "home" with my Christian brothers and sisters from the first centuries of Christendom.
     
  14. mioque

    mioque
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    Kathryn
    "Do many Baptists visit the Holy Land?"
    Absolutely, it is quite popular. My (local independant) church loves organizing outings and even vacations.
    We have a committee that organizes a vacation to a place significant to Christianity once a year.
    When I was on it we arranged for trips to Münster and Syria (my suggestions to visit Lourdes and Fatima got turned down ;) ). Others have arranged trips to Wittenberg and Egypt for example.
    We have visited Israel several times. And except for that one time one of our members succumbed to the Jerusalem syndrome* we have always had a good time. I find Israel a bit unsuited for baptists really. Many sites of interest to Christianity are covered with churches. I find them colourfull but most of my co-religionists, want to see how it was in the days Jezus walked around.
    "How about leading a Baptist tour of the Vatican this summer?"
    This year's vacation was to Rome. I even had the opportunity to have lunch with Hans Kolvenbach for the first time in many years, come to think of it I forgot to ask him if he still was the 'black pope'.
    Naturally, fighting broke out over the question: "Did Peter actually ever visit Rome and what did he do when he was there?".


    *A girl who is the spitting image of miss_Abby (one of the Baptist Board regulars who posts with a photo of herself), developed the delusion that she was king Solomon and had to stay for a week in a mental healthcare facility. Don't worry RC's are apparently immune to the disorder.
     
  15. mioque

    mioque
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    Kathryn
    I always thought that the funniest aspect of Pius XII's character was his believe that a pope ought to be a able to give advice to anybody. So when he found out that a noted English novelist was going to visit him the next day, Pius stayed up all night studying. And gave the author (T.S. Elliot) a lesson in the history of English literature the following afternoon. [​IMG]
    He did that to all his visitors, including the construction workers and bus conductors. :D

    Carson
    You of all people here can do it!
    3 good popes, 3 bad popes, just to proof that they are individuals.
     
  16. Bible-boy

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    I have been notified twice regarding Harvest's first post in this thread. I recognize that he did not exactly follow the "rules" intended by the original poster. However, he has not broken any of the Official Rules of the BB with his post.

    When a person starts a thread topic he/she is free to request that other posters follow certain guidelines. Out of respect for our fellow BB posters one generally follows the requests. Yet, no poster is bound to comply with "rules" that go beyond the Official Rules of the BB. Only the Webmaster has the authority to make Official Rules for the BB.

    I do find Harvest's post to be a bit rough, and understand why our Catholic posters may be offended. However, Harvest did clarify that he believes that Pope John Paul teaches false doctrine. Thus, he supplied a reason why he believes John Paul to be the worst Pope. Keep in mind that the very nature of this particular forum means that one must have a particularly thick skin in order to participate in the debates.

    I am requesting that you all be more considerate of one another when you post even if you disagree on an issue. Likewise, if you find a post offensive please notify the moderators and then give the moderators time to respond, and do not quote the offensive material in your replies. If you quote it then we moderators will have to potentially edit several posts to remove the material.

    Yours in Christ,

    BibleboyII
     
  17. mioque

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