Looking Back

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Mar 30, 2006.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    When I look back on my 40 years of Christian experience, I can see the hand of God in everything along the way. It was His work all along, and it was nothing of myself.

    And looking forward, pressing toward the mark as it were, I am more determined than ever to grow in grace, to live in a holy, sanctified manner. I am more determined than ever to do this.

    Do any of you reading this forum ever feel that way?

    Now this IS a theological question, and yes I am setting a trap for some, depending on their answer. It may be thinly veiled for some of you. Nevertheless, I will bring in a theological issue on this depending on the responses I get.
     
  2. Helen

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    Knowing that you are setting a trap for the likes of me, I have to laugh and ask you "how can you be 'determined... to grow in grace' when, according to you, it is all of God and none of you? You would not even have the choice to be determined! And if you had that choice, your determination would mean nothing, for you would have no say in your day to day life...

    However, like you, I can look back on about 35 years of being a born again Christian and see how God has used all the events, even those that others intended for evil, to help me and benefit me in the long run. He has been faithful to discipline me when my own decisions were faulty. He has answered prayers -- and sometimes with 'yes'! He has been gracious enough to use me to encourage others in their Christian walk.

    Yes, I credit God with all the good. Despite all the mistakes I and the people in my life have made, God allowed them because He knew that not only could He use them, but that we could learn from them. It was never His will that any of us should sin, but He allowed the expression of sinful hearts in ways He could use for the benefit of those who love Him.

    I am so grateful for what He has done for me and with me. And grateful that He will be faithful to finish the good work He has begun in me.
     
  3. Salamander

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    Well, I am determined to be strong in the grace wherewith Christ has made me free, and why not?
     
  4. genesis12

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    Even the determination comes from Him.
     
  5. J.D.

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    Hele said: I have to laugh and ask you "how can you be 'determined... to grow in grace' when, according to you, it is all of God and none of you?"

    Helen, genesis12 answered your question in your first paragraph. And quite well I might add.

    My trap is in the look back, not the looking forward, and I think you've walked into it already. But I'll wait for some more replies.
     
  6. Helen

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    Isn't that funny, then? Because I am just as totally determined to fight Calvinism as a heretical doctrine. I wonder why God would have put that determination into me -- and I know I am saved and loved by Him!

    Why does He fight against Himself, in your doctrine, using born again believers? What a strange thing!
     
  7. Paul of Eugene

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    The scripture promises us that all things work together for good to them that . . .

    Uh, what was that promise . . .

    Wasn't it something that involved human choice and freedom?

    Rom 8:28-29
    8 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

    29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
    NASU

    Yup, predestination is plainly there for all to see, based on the foreknowledge of God as to who will choose Him. Freedom to choose coupled with preperation for our needs!
     
  8. Rippon

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    Define heresy Helen . Is it soul-damning ? Is it another Gospel such as Paul warned about in Galatians 1:8,9 and 2 Cor. 11:4 ?
     
  9. whatever

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    My Mama always said, heresy is as heresy does.
     
  10. Helen

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    Stick to the subject, you two. Why would God, according to your Calvinism, cause me to be so sure you are wrong about what the Bible says when I know I am born again and a child of His? Why would He cause in me this determination and, according to your Calvinism, even be writing these words through me, since I have no will of my own and He determines everything, even to every thought I think?
     
  11. Andy T.

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    A few verses in Philippians fit well with this topic: 1:3-6; 2:12-13; 3:12-16

    I can boast of nothing in my justification nor in my sanctification.
     
  12. EdSutton

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    "Thinly veiled"? You mean like Noah's Ark was "a boat"?
    Ed
     
  13. J.R.Maddox

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    yikes!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Go get em Saul!!!!!!
     
  14. Helen

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    Now WHY would you encourage people to go against what I am saying if God has foreordained everything I will do and say and be? Isn't that going against what HE has decided?

    And if He has foreordained you to go against what I am saying, then you don't need any encouragement at all, for it means nothing, right?

    Of course, that means He has foreordained that two or more born again children of his should take opposite views, meaning he has foreordained that one should be taking the side of a lie.

    Strange, that....
     
  15. J.D.

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    Looking back...God gets all the credit, right? Then why doesn't he get all the credit going forward?

    Why is it that we all seem to have a natural tendency to speak in terms of what WE are going to do in the future, but in terms of what GOD has done in the past?
     
  16. Calvibaptist

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    Helen, I am glad you are here, because I enjoy your passion. I have no idea why God would put it into your heart to fight Calvinism. And I don't think you don't exercise choice in all these issues. No Calvinist thinks that. We believe that human choice exists, but is subject to God's sovereignty.

    Anyway, back to the point. What are the possible reasons why God would cause you to fight against Calvinism? Maybe it is to get you to really study the issue from the Scripture indepth so that you learn the Bible better than you now know it. Maybe it is so that as we try to answer your objections we will get to know the Bible better. Maybe it is so that as we go back and forth with you on these posts those others who are unsure will be convinced by logical biblical arguments.

    Whatever God's ends are, He has also determined the means to achieve those ends. The means are your choices, your arguments, your passion. The ends are up to God.
     
  17. npetreley

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    Huh? Where does it say it is based on the foreknowledge of whose who will choose Him? I don't see that anywhere.

    The word "foreknew" in the Greek means "knew intimately in advance" not "knew in advance what they would do". Not even the context allows for "knew in advance what they would do".

    Note especially the wording here:

    "to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose"

    These are two descriptions of the same people. Those who love God are those who are called according to His purpose. Not called according to what we would decide. Called according to HIS purpose.
     
  18. Helen

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    Calvi, I appreciate your appreciation for my passion! However I HAVE studied Calvinism for many years now, ever since I first heard it preached by Sproul himself. I am utterly and totally opposed to this doctrine on biblical grounds.
     
  19. J.D.

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    Helen, your opposition is more than biblical. You take it personal. There's some calvinist boogy-man you're fighting against. ?? Or is it that you're image of God as a motherly type that does not take vengence has clouded your rational judgement?
     
  20. Helen

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    No...LOL...it's biblical. I have seen some of the fruits of Calvinism and that also lets me know about the tree of that doctrine. It's not personal at all. At least not inasmuch as my own life is concerned. Where it attacks the character of the God I know and worship, it does become personal.
     

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