Lord's name in vain

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Michael D. Edwards, Apr 26, 2002.

  1. Michael D. Edwards

    Michael D. Edwards
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    Hello all:

    I was wondering if anyone could demonstrate in a clear way through the NT that the taking of the Lord's name in vain is wrong?

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  2. Aaron

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    Matthew 7

    21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
  3. Michael Edwards

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    Well, I see your point. However, I really mean more like if I stub my toe or just in general conversaiton if one were to say, "G-- dang it" or something much worse, or when many these days are saying, "Oh my G--"

    The old testament clearly precludes such use in the ten commandments. Does the New?

    Michael
     
  4. Aaron

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    Is there any indication whatever that the Ten Commandments are not relevant to the NT?

    1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings

    2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
     
  5. ChristianCynic

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    &lt; Is there any indication whatever that the Ten Commandments are not relevant to the NT? &gt;

    That requires no more than one example, which is easy enough in the command to do no work on the 7th day. Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14:5 make clear this is not required for NT Christians.
     
  6. Scott_Bushey

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    Scott states, I know this is off topic, but I could not resist........I would assume this may end up getting moved to another thread.

    Christiancynic writes:
    That requires no more than one example, which is easy enough in the command to do no work on the 7th day. Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14:5 make clear this is not required for NT Christians.

    CC,
    You mention Romans as support for your claim. Look what Paul writes previous to chapter 14.

    Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

    Scott states:
    It doesn't seem as if Paul is implying that there is NO LONGER the law of God. He is however implying how the law can be fulfilled. Christs' fulfillment of the righteous requirements of the law is in no way proof to imply that Christ intended to *abolish* the law as result of His accomplishment. He himself stated that not one jot or tittle would "pass away"
    untill ALL be fulfilled. Has ALL been fulfilled?

    Paul quotes the law...........

    Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Paul again speaks of the law. He speaks in the present tense.

    Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
    Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
    Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:

    Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Rom 2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
    Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    What do you think Pauls implication is above?
    So many other examples. Justified alone in Christ alone, surely, not the law, but Gods law is forever eternal.

    Here's the *all* spoken of by Jesus. Some schools state that the *all* was accomplished @ Calvary's cross, The tetelestai. But it seems Jesus may have had a different idea or implication.

    Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
    Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
    Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
    Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time

    2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    I ask, is fulfillment of the law a means to abolish that which God has *etched in stone?"

    In HIM,
    Scott

    [ April 30, 2002, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
  7. Daniel David

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    Scott, consider II Corinthians 3. The Old Covenant is a ministry of death. The New Covenant is a ministry of life. The Old Testament law has been completely done away with for all believers. See Romans 10:4. Have a nice day.
     
  8. Scott_Bushey

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    PTW,
    I wish you might address that which I posed.

    Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Are you stating that the *servanthood* Paul is speaking of is not servanthood "by the spirit" to the law?

    Paul calls the law Holy.......

    Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    In HIM,
    Scott
     
  9. Sularis

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    Wow - someone else believes in the validity of the OT - you know how RARE that is?!?
     
  10. hrhema

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    If you look at my thread you will find nearly the same topic happening.

    I also am waiting for answers to scriptures I presented where John, and Peter and Jesus himself talked about us obeying commandments. This does not seem that the entire law was done away with.
    Again as I have presented there I do so here.
    It was the cermonial law that was done away with on Calvary not moral law.
     
  11. Michael D. Edwards

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    Ok Two things

    1. We really did, in fact, get off topic. So, does anyone actually have something to say with regard to the Lord's name being taken in vain in the NT, by specific command?

    2. I'll start a new thread for this ever important topic of OT relevance.

    Michael
     
  12. Scott_Bushey

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    Michael,
    Please forgive me as I am the one guilty of causing the shift.

    In HIM,
    Scott

    [ April 30, 2002, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
  13. LadyEagle

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    Back to Topic:

    James 3:[5] Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
    [6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
    [7] For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
    [8] But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
    [9] Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
    [10] Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

    Romans 6:[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
    [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    James 5:[12] But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
     
  14. Michael Edwards

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    Thanks for the post. However, if we didn't have the OT and the command to NOT take the Lord's name in vain, would someone reading that know not to say, "Oh my God!" in some sort of response to something?

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  15. Aaron

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    Mike,

    Are you serious about this or just trying to stimulate discussion? ;)

    Using God's name in any light or flippant way profanes; that is, makes common his name.

    It's the same as saying, "Oh, Christ!" or "Jesus!"

    Are you arguing that Christians have the "liberty" to trample under foot the Son of God?
     
  16. ChristianCynic

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    &lt; I ask, is fulfillment of the law a means to abolish that which God has *etched in stone? &gt;

    Fulfillment is not abolition. The questions need to put to you: Do you do no work of any kind of the seventh day of the week? Do you ever take photographs or videotape, draw pictures, or build models? Recall the '2nd' commandment say to "not make any likeness of anything"
     
  17. Aaron

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    I think if we focused on working the other six days, we would welcome a day of rest even according to the "handwriting of ordinances."

    There is a fundamental principle embedded in the Decalogue. If it is offended in one point, then the whole Law has been offended.

    But let's put the question to the cynic. What is the difference between the "handwriting of ordinances" and the "ministration of death written in stone"? Think carefully before you answer this one.
     
  18. Scott_Bushey

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    CCynic,
    Ezek 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
    Ezek 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
    Ezek 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
    Ezek 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
    Ezek 36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
    Ezek 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
    Ezek 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

    21 "(18) Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
    22 "(19) Many will say to Me on (20) that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
    23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (21) DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

    Scott adds:
    Christ emphatically states, "on that day". What day is this? At the end! What lawlessness is the savior referring to?

    "[Matt 8:20] The Son of Man [Matt 24:31] will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all [Zeph 1:3] stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

    [Rom 3:5] I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just [Rom 6:13] as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

    Christ fulfilled the requirements, which now and forever justifies. This in no way, implies we throw the baby out with the bath water.

    In HIM,
    Scott

    [ May 01, 2002, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
  19. Chris Temple

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    To call upon the name of the Lord without meaning is a vain oath, thereby taking his name in vain, even in the NT:

    Matt 5:34 “But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
    35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
    36 “Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
    37 “But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil."

    James 5:12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.

    If one calls God as witness, they had better be sure that they want God as witness to their words! (Phil 1:8)
     
  20. Michael Edwards

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    ARE YOU KIDDING!!! I would NEVER want to trample the Son of God underfoot!!! But yes, it is a serious question! I think the answer helps us to see that there are relevent things that the Christian is still under in terms of OT morals. I've been studying new covenant theology that says that 9 of the 10 commandments are carried over into the new testament. It's simply not true since not all 9 of the ones they say are carried over are even mentioned. I'm not sure that I accept that the 10 commandments are the essnece of the Moral law, but none the less, it's just a process of study for me.

    Michael
     

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