Loud Enough To Raise The Dead

Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by moondg, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. moondg

    moondg
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    Downtown berkeley: Merchants say they're losing business as customers flee fire-and-brimstone preachers who use PA systems

    What would Jesus do? He'd probably tell them all to shut the hell up.
    And thank God that during the Sermon on the Mount he didn't use a public address system, which is what the Bay Area Outreach Ministries' preachers are using, to great annoyance, in Berkeley at the corner of Telegraph Avenue and Haste Street. The free newspaper, the Berkeley Daily Planet, recently published an article about how these fire-and-brimstone-spewing clowns are force-feeding their version of redemption to whoever crosses their sidewalk-blocking paths.
    Get out of the way. While they're trying to save souls, they're also gumming up the pathways in front of the local merchants trying to sell their goods.
    Listen to Jesus. The Bible says he didn't yell much. Sure, he got ticked off at the money changers in the temple one day and knocked over a few tables, but that was about it for bad behavior.
    Berkeley residents don't seem much interested in the message of eternal damnation for their "wicked" ways. Or having religious pamphlets shoved in their faces.
    Crazies are a part of street life. But they're usually unamplified. These purveyors of the New Testament's "Good News" might want to try getting their message across in a genteel way, rather than through a bullhorn blast.
    As a local florist said in an apt sign: "Why crucify me?"
    That local florist is Gwynn Coffee. And she is fed up with it all; it's hurting business, Coffee said, and chewing up her work day.
    "It's not only putting a damper on things," she said, "it's also taking up my time. Nobody really wants to walk on that side of the street when they're there."
    So what does she think Jesus would do? "He'd look down and say, 'That's not what I meant,' " she said. " 'You're misrepresenting me.' "
    Larry Rosenbaum of the ministries group doesn't see it that way. He said they're just there "to share the gospel of Jesus Christ."
    But he does admit it's an amplified message.
    Rosenbaum said he doesn't mean to drive away business, just preach Biblical teachings.
    And he said it's in the way of Jesus. "I think Jesus, when he was on Earth, he did preach the gospel. He was very loud, because thousands of people could hear him at one time. So he must've been loud with his voice."
    Yeah, maybe so, but Rosenbaum and his ilk ain't Jesus. They're not turning water into wine; they're not raising the dead; they're not casting demons into pigs. He and his colleague apostles are just annoying the hell out of everyone, particularly Coffee.
    "I'm a third-generation Berkeleyite," she said. "And if there's something we covet here, it's our freedom of speech. The problem is when it's so loud that me, a loud person, can't hear my customers on the phone."
    Complaints have also come from Amoeba Records, which Rosenbaum finds puzzling, since they blast their own music inside the store. OK, I'll give him that. Good point.
    He said they're usually out there just on Saturdays, but recently stepped it up to commemorate the supposedly evil "Summer of Love," the 1967 San Francisco freak-fest.
    Coffee, who has tried to call the cops, said the preachers always turn down the decibel level by the time they arrive. So she's started a petition drive to shut them down, a very grassroots Berkeley kind of thing to do.
    It's "so when people are out here plugging their ears, cringing, we can offer them a petition," she said.
    Rosenbaum says they all play nice. "We certainly try to be considerate of the people in the area there," he said. "I'm not aware that we're driving away any business. I guess the flower woman is the most disturbed with us."
    Well, yes.
    So, how about this? Take away the amplification. Just talk loud as Jesus did. And all will be at peace and the meeker you are, the more of the Earth thou shall inherit.
    Dan Reed is a Bay Area freelance writer. Contact us at [email protected].
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/02/INNTRRTTC.DTL
    This article appeared on page E - 2 of the San Francisco Chronicle
    San Francisco Chronicle Sections MagazineStyleSportsBay AreaTravelBusinessInsightReal EstateDatebookBook ReviewsCommentarySunday DatebookNews

    I do not believe these people are going to win many to Christ.
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

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    Freedom of speech doesn't include the right to eletronic amplification.
     
  3. hillclimber1

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    Not only that but they portray Christianity as being full of nut cases. We have enough trouble with some of our brothers and sisters, without this.
     
  4. hillclimber1

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    I don't know about the electronic amplification, but with freedoms comes responsibility. And for a Christian it should include decorum and a countenance that would present Christ in the proper light.

    There's far too much impropriety in the Church today.
     
  5. Timsings

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    We've disagreed on some other issues, but I'm right with you on this.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  6. Bro. Williams

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    To begin, the thread title is perfect, for that is exactly what the preaching is trying to do, wake the dead from their sins to life everlasting.

    Now, on to issues with the article. First, it is Berkeley, a haven for infidels, Bible-haters, Jesus haters and heathen.

    Fire and brimstone is always set in a negative light, when hell is a popular topic of our Lord.

    And that pretty well sums up the biased opinion of the author.


    He is God manifest in the flesh, why would he need a PA? It has been said that Whitefield and Wesley could be heard in a one mile radius.

    Personally, we don't use PA's. Those that I have used for other reasons in my past life (crowd control at concerts, working in early ministries I wouldnt name) are loud, but are nothing more than the filth that "spews" out of vehicles.

    "spewing clowns". Where is the acceptance? Where are the cries for tolerance? All that is thrown out the window when it comes to Christians who take a bold stance for the Lord.

    "force feeding their version of redemption" - Excuse me, the Bible's version of redemption, which is God's version.

    Pedestrians don't gum up the walks? The preachers are not the ones selling anything, they are giving away free life eternal.

    Amen, first intelligent thing said yet.

    Really? Where would that verse be?

    You see how this FOOL thinks? Jesus was bad. Look at it again.


    You don't say.

    Ahhh, here we go. Street preachers (or Christians who preach the gospel to a dying world), are crazy.

    Why doesn't this guy show them how to do it then? Hmmm? I have never had a heckler who was saved (they say they are saved...) take me up on the offer of showing me a better way to do things. To each his own.

    I wonder how often the author witnesses? Is he even saved? You know what, I bet these "purveyors of the NT's Good News" to try more genteel ways. Our church street preaches, but we also pass out thousands upon thousands of tracts each year. We also visit homes on an individual basis. We also do one on one witnessing. The opinion of the author is one of malice and bias, I guarantee he knows not what else these preachers do, other than the hated bullhorn blast.

    We are to crucify the flesh daily. What a nonsensical sign anyways.

    Riiiiiight.


    Amen, any problems here?

    Can anyone else see the truth in this wolf? Here we have some author who is ignorant of the BIble, ignorant of dipensation, ignorant of the Gospel, who uses the term "hell" out of context in an effort to be cute, all while trying to correct preachers of the Bible. Brilliant. I always get a kick out of the ignorance of those who like to argue doctrine with my pastor, as an example. Most of those who do seldom read their Bibles, seldom pray, and seldom come to church. Yet they believe themselves to be able theologians.


    Volume is relative. I don't promote PA's, but I won't denounce them until I see the situation first hand.


    OKay.

    Amen.


    Riiiiight. Maybe, maybe not. Romans 3:4.

    A petition, not to quiet them, nor to remove the PA's,. but to shut them down. That is certainly a very Berkeley thing to do.

     
  7. pinoybaptist

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    nobody wants to be told they're sinners and need to repent (unless they've been given life beforehand) or they go to hell, which is usually the street preacher's theme.

    that's bad news.

    the gospel, or good news, is that Jesus who is God Himself came in the flesh to take the sinner's guilt away.

    that's good news, but only for the ears of those for whom the good news is intended.

    I used to do street preaching. we've gotten pelted with stones, poop, and most anything the guys in those mean streets of manila can get their hands on.

    one of my colleagues was stabbed. right armpit. good the blade didn't go in too deep. he was a pastor, too.

    nobody wants to hear the word of God, unless the word was meant for him.

    oh, but if they'd maybe use their amplified voices to ridicule the administration, or the local police, or the local politicians, or to put sodomites and lesbos on a pedestal and stomp on those who oppose them, they'd probably get a good audience, maybe even free drinks from the coffee lady.
     
  8. UnchartedSpirit

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    One can never expecy anyone to get anything right in Berkely...but having been there last week I found no such activity down any of the main streets (Shattuck, University, Telegraph) that I walked through....If there were I could safely guess it couldn't be louder than the other problems Berkeley complans about i.e. students/homeless people lotiering with boom boxes and packs of cigarettes...Of course hell-themed talk isn't a bad way of starting a outreach compaign...One could still argue that the Dante depiction they use is at least misleading but really is a major deterrant to bringing Christ into anyone...especially in Berkeley....
     
  9. donnA

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    If your method turn people off, you aren't winning people to Christ, your turning them away.
     
  10. Bro. Williams

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    Every method at one point or another turn people off.

    We are not called to win people to Christ, we are called to preach the gospel. The Lord does the saving, we do the preaching.

    I have turned unsaved people off by my walk with Christ, my Bible reading, my praying, my witnessing, my street preaching, my visiting, my jail ministry, my tract distributing, etc.

    Should I then discontinue all those? Absurd.
     
  11. Bro. Williams

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    To further that:

    I have had people turned off because I go to church every time the doors are opened and because we ding hymns. Still absurd.
     
  12. Timsings

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    I can understand that. I find that singing hymns works much better. It's not as offensive, and it doesn't take near as much energy.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  13. Bro. Williams

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    Hey, listen. Don't insult our bell choir. I am supposed to get the triangle this week.
     

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