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Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by qwerty, Dec 20, 2002.
On another thread, someone asked what it means to be lukewarm. What are your thoughts?
Rev. 3:14 These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.  I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!  So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.  You say, `I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.  I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Hot and cold Jesus wants. Hot is good. Cold is good. Lukewarm is trying to create our own source of energy. Lukewarm is pretending. It is neither hot or cold. Lukewarm pretends that it can be both cold or hot, but it is not hot or cold.
Lukewarm is a false reality. Hot and Cold cannot exist without an external power source. Lukewarm is the result of not having an external power source. Lukewarm takes on the characteristics of its surrounding environment. Basically, Lukewarm is in unison with its surrounding environment. Sounds like the Church and the World in many cases today.
Lukewarm is blind to reality. Jesus has a view that Lukewarm is “wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.” Lukewarm thinks, “I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.”
Lukewarm has at its foundations idolatry, with the idol being worshipped being Mammon.
To me it is the measure of ones faith. The old adage is that if one stands for nothing then one would fall for anything.
There is a great apostasy among those churches descending into liberalism. A great many passages are being wrested from His Word, discarded and rejected to their own destruction. The Pauline epistles are discarded as hateful and irrelevant, Genesis is relegated to the realm of mythos and Jewish legend, the authorship of Moses is denied and relegated to a number of different authors.
The glorious Word of Almighty God is watered-down into a feel-good pablum of universal love with an emphasis on meism and a de-emphasis of Deism. I am the way, the truth, and the life, becomes all pathways lead to the divine awareness and transendency. Pure putrid pablum which leads the foolish unto the fires of eternal judgement.
The pseudo-christian congregations pay lip-service to Christ, but what they teach and believe is anathema. They are as the foolish virgins without the love of God within their hearts, their lamps are not lit for they have no oil.
May God so bless His precious children, and may His glorious Word be a Lamp unto our feet, and a Light unto our path.
Lukewarm is neither hot nor cold - it is lukewarm. Jesus was concerned about a lukewarm church in Laodicea (see Revelations 3:14-22). The Scripture is very self explanatory there, but for those who like to have a direct quote, here it is:
It would seem that what the Bible is saying is. That it would be a church that depends on momey and not Christ (more than Christ.
Having just preached on this passage as the concluding message of my series, "What Kind of Church Does God Like," I have concluded that lukewarm is useless. Where hot and cold both have value, lukewarm has none. Who wants a cup of lukewarm coffee or a glass of room temperature water?? No one .. They are both useless. So Christ desires a church that is useful.
Lukewarmness most likely stems from a condition of unbelief. It could possibly be a Christian who has become infatuated with this world. In either case, they are self-sufficient (rich and have need of nothing). Yet they are blind to their true condition. These are people who are useless because they think they are serving God but they have departed from in.
The answer to lukewarmness is repentance.
Hi Pastor Larry;
I respect your view of luke warm but would you also consider that to be luke warm is to be without the desire to do God's work,or will.I've known lots of Christians who are plenty happy with going to Church until you ask them to help out.Kind of like slothfulness or laziness.Like Jonah unwilling to do the will of the Lord because right then you want to do what you want to do.I would consider being willing, to be hot. and lack of knowledge of what God will is to be cold.And unwillingness to do Gods will to be luke warm.
I totally agree with your last sentence. Repentance is the key. After repentance have a desire to do His will.
May God bless you;
The city of Laodicea was situated in the vicinity of two cities, Hieropolis and Colosse, that were known for their water.
Hieropolis had hot springs that were believed to have medicinal value. Colosse, on the other hand, was known for its cold, refreshing water.
By contrast, Laodicea had neither. Its water came from six miles away via aqueduct. By the time it arrived, it smelled foul and tasted bitter because of all the minerals it picked up from the stone.
It was nauseating. On top of that, it was lukewarm - neither hot nor cold. This is the image Jesus is using. Hot and cold are useful and refreshing. Lukewarm, on the other hand, induces one to vomit.
In addition, Laodicea was the source of a black wool sought after for expensive garments - but only Christ saw that the church of Laodicea was naked.
Laodicea was the home of a medical school famous for "tephra Phrygia," a remedy for eye disorders - but only Christ saw that the church of Laodicea was blind.
In about AD 60, most of the city was destroyed in an earthquake that took out much of the rest of the region as well. Laodicea was wealthy enough to rebuild without aid from Rome. "I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," said the Laodicean church - but only Christ saw that they were wretched, miserable, and poor.
The Laodicean church was self-satisfied, complacent, and utterly unaware of their true condition: Christ saw them as poor, blind, and naked - nauseating, and utterly worthless to him.
[ December 20, 2002, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]
Thanks, Ransom, for the historical info. That was very interesting. Once again, there are layers of meaning to the Scripture. Very interesting indeed.
Coupla years ago I stood on the 'mound' of Laodicea in modern Turkey. Found it odd that it has never been excavated. Think that this might be added to the good historical insights of Scott.
Just down the road from other historic cities with intensive excavation (Ephesus is like the Disneyland of archaeology). And all the other cities of Revelation.
Hieropolis is a world-class resort (Pammulke), with ruins overlooking the most extensive hot spring terraces in the world (NOT the largest - that's at Thermopolis, Wyoming).
Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, put my hand in the cold, mountain water of the Meander just upstream from the confluence with the hot springs. Ice cold.
Water from the springs was still over 80F I would say, steaming in the March chill.
Then after they merge, it is amazing . . and worthless. "Lukewarm" is probably one of the most significant object lessons in Revelation.
Wow! you guys are being WAY too analytical. The Bible doesn't try and confuse us with convoluted concepts. Jesus said he would rather we be HOT (which we ought to be) or COLD (which is not a good thing but at least he can work with that). Apathy (LUKEWARM) is almost impossible to overcome.
You think that Jesus wants his church to spiritually cold??
In the historical context, both hot and cold were useful to the people; lukewarm was disgusting. That is why hot and cold are useful conditions and lukewarm is not. You are right that he is not using a convuluted concept. But that does not lead us to your position.
You think that Jesus wants his church to spiritually cold??
In the historical context, both hot and cold were useful to the people; lukewarm was disgusting. That is why hot and cold are useful conditions and lukewarm is not. You are right that he is not using a convuluted concept. But that does not lead us to your position.</font>[/QUOTE]Pastor Larry,
You are right, Jesus does not want His church to be cold. I think what He was teaching was that the natural way of looking at things wasn't right. Most people would think that HOT is best and then LUKEWARM and finally COLD. Jesus, IMHO, was telling us that Hot was best THEN Cold and THEN Lukewarm. Hot is the only acceptable adjective that should describe a Christian or church. I think Jesus was specifically telling us that to be Lukewarm was worse than Cold, and not that Cold was acceptable at all.
[ December 30, 2002, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Artimaeus ]