Lutheran changes his mind:

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by mima, Jun 1, 2006.

  1. mima

    mima
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    Every Tuesday night the Gideons have a jail ministry. last Tuesday brought a surprising turn of events. The president of the will local chapter of the Gideons is a man of about 70 years of age. A strong, committed, hard-working Lutheran, who is very interested in Scripture and what different people believe. At last Tuesday's meeting the Gideons had more than enough to men for the number of cells available in our local jail. The president was assigning cells to different people,and he and I ended up going to the same cell together because of the number of men available. In this very seldom happens when it does somebody has to double up and it was for this reason that we ended up doubling up. No sooner had we entered in the cell than one of the new inmates in the cell said, oh I recognize you because I accept the Lord Jesus Christ when you were preaching on the street. . Immediately the Gideon president perks up. What is this man talking about the president asked me? Well you know I said that I'm a street preacher and I go around witnessing to people on the street and apparently although I don't remember him this man was one of the people who accepted Jesus Christ on the street. Well said the president tell me exactly how this would happen? I told him. He thought about it. And then he said, I have never been to church service where an altar invitation call was offered. And I vaguely know what an altar call is.. Later after we both had our turn speaking I gave a call to the inmates and low and behold this Lutheran president of the Gideons answered that call and said I want to say the sinners prayer. Later after some discussion I discovered that he did not believe in baptismal regeneration, nor did he believe what the Lutheran Church believes about the elements in Communion. He had been a member of the church of course all his life. But after hearing an invitation to be saved he changed his mind about his what his church told him concerning his condition (salvation).
     
  2. Chemnitz

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    A sad day indeed. It is a shame to see somebody turn his back on the purity of the gospel to trust in his own works.:tear:
     
  3. music4Him

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    Praise God he seen the error of his ways before it it too late and now is blood washed, santified child of the King of kings and today he is saved!:praise: Rejoice!
     
  4. Chemnitz

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    Sounds more like somebody trusting in a prayer more than in the promises of God. It troubles me too see so many people confuse the works of an altar call, the sinners prayer, and thinking they can decide with their wholy imperfect mind to follow Jesus. As if anybody could want to follow Jesus if God hadn't already changed them. This is just one more guy trusting his own works rather than trusting in the fulfilling promises in Christ.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    I missed the lead in item because the type was far too small to read.......Please try to remember us older blokes when choosing a type size font.

    Thanks you, and cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. J. Jump

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    Chemnitz I'm not a huge fan of the sinner's prayer or the alter call per se as I think there are some troubling things associated with it these days, but to say that just because someone prayed to accept Christ as Savior that equates to them trusting in their own works is a huge stretch on your part.

    No one can know a man's heart except God. So how do you know that this man is trusting in his own works.

    If a person accepts Christ as Savior regardless of whether they say a prayer or walk and isle they are accepting the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God. Now works on their part at all, but rather the works of Jesus. vbmenu_register("postmenu_777017", true);
     
  7. Jim1999

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    How many people actually know what they are doing when they first come to Jesus Christ in salvation? I think they must have come under some conviction that their life is lacking and a change is needed. Receiving Jesus was an alternative offered to them, and they decide to persue that path.

    One can make that move in the quiet of their own soul, and they can make that move in one of the more visible actions. Which one is not valid?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Chemnitz

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    Anybody willing to trust in their decision is trusting in their works.

    The word "accept" in and of itself is a confession that they are trusting in something they did. They are not trusting in the vicarious satisfaction of Christ but in their own ability to accept something.
     
  9. J. Jump

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    Scripture says that salvation is a gift. And a gift must be received or accepted. It has nothing to do with that person's work. I think you have a misconception of what accept means. Just because a person accepts Jesus death and shed blood on their behalf in no way indicates they are trusting in themselves for anything, but quite the opposite. They are trusting that Jesus paid their penalty and accepting that payment as their own.
     
  10. Chemnitz

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    If I do something to actively take something it is no longer a gift. Accept by its very nature denotes actively doing something in order to gain it or its benefits. It implies that the person performed an action in order to recieve something, in the case of many American Evangelicals, their decision or their making Jesus Lord of their life. All of these are indicitive of a belief that is by their own works they can recieve the benefits of Christ's sacrifice.
     
  11. J. Jump

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    Chemnitz it's hard to comprehend that you actually believe what you are typing.

    If I wrap a gift and bring it to you how are you going to get it? You are going to have to extend your arms and receive it. Does that mean I just paid you a wage for you lifting your arms?

    There is no work in receiving a gift. There is no work in accepting a gift.

    If you want to continue believing that then so be it, but the Bible doesn't teach it.
     
  12. Jim1999

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    I am a solid 5-point Calvinist and I find that very difficult to understand,,,that receiving a gift is performing a meritorious work.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. Matt Black

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    Chemnitz, let me put it a slightly different way: suppose I invite you round for dinner. I serve you dinner, I demand no payment from you for it. Have I 'given' you dinner; is it free? Yes! But you still have to do something: eat it....
     
  14. mcdirector

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    What are we to do with a gift but accept or reject it? Either scenario involves action.
     
  15. Chemnitz

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    There is a serious semantic difference between receive and accept. Receive has a passive connotation where as accept has an active connotation. We are not active in our salvation we are passive.

    All of the analogies I have seen are pointless and don't even come close to describing what happens when God rescues another person. Why you ask? Because they all have one serious flaw, they are limited by human wisdom which can't even begin to understand what is happening.

     
  16. J. Jump

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    So you are saying that God has revealed a message to us that we can't understand?
     
  17. Chemnitz

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    You sound surprised, can we truly understand creation?
    The conversion process has always been the unanswerable question hence the reason it is typically refered to as the crux de theologomina. The people who have it wrong are the people who think they can explain it. An honest theologian will only tell you what it isn't and acceptance is not conversion. The bible never lays out conversion only informs us it is brought about by God's word anything else is a description of the end product.
     
  18. Eric B

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    Yeah, and the side that tries to explain it the most is the one that says "I know why some are saved and not others! God unconditionally regenerates some and passes over the rest". If you admit that this is really that "unanswerable", then that assumption should not be made either.
     
  19. J. Jump

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    Yeah it continues to amaze me that Christians think that God has revealed Himself to us in Scripture only to keep Himself hidden. It doesn't even make sense.

    Can we understand everything about God. Absolutely not. God has not revealed everything to us. But you and others are terribly mistaken thinking that we can't understand what God has revealed to us.

    But as I have said many times if you want to continue to believe that way that is on you. I just can't see why someone would want to continue to study the Bible if we have no hope of understanding the message.

    I will continue to trust that the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of leading us into all truth. And that He is able to search the depths of God and then teach them to us. That's what the Bible says. And everything that God has revealed to us through His Word is knowable if we will just allow the Spirit to teach us.
     
  20. Chemnitz

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    And the mechanics of conversion is one of those things that the Word is silent about.
     

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