Man's nature

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't agree with Owen either. Irresistable grace is easily refutable in the Bible:

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

It is quite evident that the Holy Spirit (and thus the grace of God) can be resisted.

 

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

People who are unregenerate always resist the Spirit (Or people without the Spirit or people who are in flesh alone). I dont think this is talking about the irresistable work of God's Spirit. I think this is talking about sinners who always reject God as He stands there with His arms open wide for people to repent, and they dont.

 

This was not said to me but it's one reason Calvinism seems to defeat itself by its followers - those who support it tell those who disagree that they are against the bible or the "doctrines of God's Sovereign Grace," or something like that. Isee this here all the time - all the time!

It's just being mean is what it is.

 

I thought regeneration was being born from above and being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. This comes after belief according to what I read in the bible.

 

Allan is the only one who responded to my post #46.

Here it is again.

Don't the verses you quote show that belief precedes eternal life? I don't see how they are supporting the view that life precedes belief. one believes and one has eternal life.

Well? Any Calvinist here care to defend Kyredneck or respond?

 

Ann, you are always nice and I like you. You are the nicest Calvinist on the BB, imo. :wavey:

I've heard this example of Lazarus before, but the story of Lazarus was not about salvation but about the power Jesus had to raise the dead. It should not be used as an allegory of salvation. That is just not good hermeneutics.

I don't see scriptural support, however, for the "quickening." It's just not there. The way God saves is hidden from us, as far as I'm concerned. He tells us we are elect and chosen and He tells us to believe. Salvation is a mystery that we cannot dissect.

Being spiritually dead means being separated from God, and unreconciled to Him, not unable to respond.

 

Thanks, Ann!:wavey:

 

They are one and the same.
Either you will yield you will to the Spirit or to the flesh/sin.
Either you will yield you nature to the Spirit or to sin.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The battle is in the mind.

 

No they don't. If they did, then you or anyone else on this world would not be saved. The reason people are saved is that they yield themselves to the Holy Spirit. Consider the work of the Holy Spirit:

John 16:8-11 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The Holy Spirits convicts the unregenerate of sin. If He didn't, they wouldn't be saved. Of sin because they believe not on me. This is specifically speaking of the unregenerate.

He was speaking of the Jews--God's chosen people in Acts chapter 7. He was referring to their fathers in the past--the Israelites. Stephen himself was an Israelite.
As on the Day of Pentecost, they had a choice to make. They were convicted of the Holy Spirit. They could either reject the Holy Spirit or receive Him. On the Day of Pentecost out of the thousands that were there, there were 3,000 that received Him, and thousands of others that resisted him. Why the difference? There was free will among the unregenerate. Some resisted and some did not.

 

No Marcia, it's people like you who are not only 'mean', but downright deceptive in your persistent insidious implications that all monergists are really just followers of Calvin.

One needs only to do a very brief scan of Winman's posts to realize his whole intent on this site is to bash the monergists and label them all as Calvinists, which really I take pride in the label, but for those newbies outside looking in, they could easily get the wrong impression towards us. Yeah, it is a shameful, deceitful tactic that you believers in 'Man's Sovereign Will' use quite often.

You, Marcia, should be ashamed.

 

Allan, before going into this I wish first to clearly understand what you are saying the PBs believe.

Are you saying that we say ALL God's redeemed, born from above, are physically born into this world in a regenerated state?

Also, if you would, answer the question I posed to you in post #64. [ correction- Post # 63 ]

 

Is there a formula to follow to aquire eternal life? Yes, the bible states whosoever believes 'shall have' eternal or everlasting life.

What is eternal or everlasting life?
“And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.".
Eternal life = having a relationship with God, and His Christ, Jesus.

If one does not have a relationship with both God and His Son, Jesus, then according to scripture he does not have eternal life.

 

Marcia, the very last sentence of my post should be plain enough for a third grader to understand it. Here it is again, just for you Marcia:

 

From all the PB's I have debated with and those on this board that I have specifically spoken with (as well as the materials I have read from them), believe the elect is composed up of those of faith as well as others that will never have/place faith in Christ. These 'others' consist of unbelievers, believers in other gods, atheists or haters of God, but after they die they will find out they are God's elect ones and are already saved.

They all state the same thing you seemingly did back in post #63.. there is no 'formula' in order for man to obtain eternal life.

 

Paul had this to say of the Jews:

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you, even as it is written. Ro 2:24

I am convinced that when all this is said and done and over with it will be clearly seen that the Gentiles have done absolutely no better with the tenets of the second covenant than the Jews did with the first. Just as described in Ezek 34, 'the church' has virtually driven many of the sheep away and they want nothing to do with it.

 

Ok, but this doesn't addressed either my statement regarding the PB belief concerning eternal life nor my question posed to you on the same subject: