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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, May 31, 2013.

  1. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    They die because of the curse. God cursed the whole universe with death, and it is a curse that has not been lifted. We don't die because we are each individually guilty of Adam's sin.... we die because the consequence of Adam's sin was God cursed the earth death, and that death is passed to us. Each of us are guilty of our own sin, and therefore the judgement that God gave to Adam, and that has passed to us is justified.

    Where did the woman come from? Oh yeah... out of man. You might have a point if God created Eve separately rather than taking her out of Adam. Your theory of two separate species of human (male and female) is demonstrably false.

    Absolutely not, but your interpretation of Romans 5 would demand it.

    By your rationale, you are a universalist.

    I'm not a Calvinist, so I will never be able to see this from your perspective. But I don't wish you any ill will. Be blessed.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    But the "curse" IS death and so you have death the cause of death! Still oxymoronic and Biblically wrong! Sin is the cause of dying and dying is the curse of sin. You are attempting to squeeze in a THIRD party to stand between "sin" and "death" and it ain't so!

    Because sin has not been removed! Death only continue because sin continues. Remove sin and you remove death because death cannot exist were there is no sin. Infants die because they are sinners BY NATURE. Infants died between Adam and Moses because they SINNED in Adam not because of personal individual transgression of the law between Moses and Adam as the law did not exist.


    I wish nothing but the best for you as well.
    f
    Thus you contradict your use of Ezek. 18 where no one dies who does not sin. However, you have all infants dying without sin. You have Christ dying without sin, when in fact, "he was MADE SIN' (2 Cor. 5:21) and therefore his "death" was just in keeping with being "made sin" for us. That is the only reason we are justified from the penalty of the law because of Christ's death. What has been born again, saved never dies (Jn. 11) and what aspect of our nature does die is due to the indwelling "law of sin" residing in it (Rom. 7:18-21).

    and we "all sinned" IN ADAM by nature as the whole of nature existed in Adam when Adam sinned, and thus "all have sinned" (Rom. 5:12b). Just as when Christ died "all in Christ" died with Him. Just as Christ is now seated in heavenly places we are also seated "in Christ" (Eph. 2:7). We are created in Adam POSITIONALLY and by NATURE (generation) just as all who are created in Christ, are in Christ positionally and by nature - new birth.



    Modern science tells you that you are a product of your mother and father but they do not equally supply the same aspects of your human nature.



    Not at all. To be a universalist I would have to take your position that "ALL" in Adam EQUALS "ALL" in Christ. I do not take that position. My position is that one must be created in Christ to be "in Christ" just as one must be created in Adam to be "in Adam." Therefore, I reject that "all in Adam" equal "all in Christ" because none in Christ will be lost and that is not true of "all in Adam" is it??? Even the free will arminian lost and saved and lost theory must believe a person can only be lost OUTSIDE of Christ not In Christ.
     
    #22 The Biblicist, Jun 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2013
  3. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I agree with that!
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I do too! However, we are not dealing with the unfallen nature of man but with the fallen nature of man and that is entirely a different story - Rom. 8:7-8.
     
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