Forgive me for barging into the forum and adding a new topic. However, in this debate, it seems that the subject of depravity is being neglected. Many false understandings of grace come from an improper view of man's condition. Allow me a bit of background — man is a trichotomous being. We are created in the image of God. I believe the Scriptures bare out that means we are "3-in-1" as well. We were created with a body, soul and spirit. Our body (connection to the physical world), Soul (ability to think and will), and Spirit (our ability to be God conscience) makes up our existence. (Paul explains in 1Thessalonians 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit (Greek - Pnuema) and soul (Greek-Psycha) and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.") Now, when God told Adam and Eve they would die "in the day" they ate the fruit, did He literally mean that day? Of course He did. God created the day defined as the "evening and the morning." Adam and Eve died spiritually and that is the nature they have passed on to their children and to us. We are born spiritually dead. (Anyone who doubts Paul's assertion to that affect should read his indictment of human nature in Romans 3.) How then are we to be saved? Eph. 2:1 "you hath He quickened (literally made alive) who were dead ..." Paul is not speaking poetically here. We are literally brought back into spiritual life by the Holy Spirit. The connotation to this, of course, is that it is something we are totally incapable of doing or willing in ourselves. It is just as impossible for us to be responsible for our spiritual life through "free will" than it is for a physically dead man to will himself back to life. It is truly all of grace.