Mark contains three, four, visits to the tomb

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Mark contains three, four, visits to the tomb


    The Gospel of Mark with references and implications confirms three of the women’s visits to the tomb “on the First Day of the week”. From the women’s intention that “when they would go, they might anoint Him” (Mark 16:1B), the fact even of Mary Magdalene’s discovery of the cast away stone (John 20:1,2) may be deduced. Although Mary Magdalene had thought Jesus’ body was removed, she and the other women whom she must have told about the moved away stone, all still must have believed the body was in the tomb “so that when they would go, they may / could anoint Him”. Therefore . . .


    Summarised:

    First Visit: by several women : Empty tomb

    Mark 16:1B = Luke 24:1-10; 20,21

    Second Visit: Women look again

    Mark 16:2-8

    Third Visit: First Appearance

    John 20:11 = Mark 16:9

    First Report:

    John 20:18 = Mark 16:10


    Mark 16:1A

    Καὶ διαγενομένου τοῦ σαββάτου Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ καὶ Μαρία ἡ τοῦ Ἰακώβου καὶ Σαλώμη

    And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary of James, and Salome,

    ἠγόρασαν ἀρώματα ἵνα

    had bought spices, that


    First Visit: by several women : Empty tomb

    Using the Subjunctive, Mark SUPPOSES the women’s first and earliest visit,

    Mark 16:1B

    ἐλθοῦσαι ἀλείψωσιν αὐτόν.

    they might come and anoint him.


    ...about which Luke recorded,

    Luke 24:1-10; 20,21

    τῇ δὲ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων ὄρθρου βαθέως

    Now upon the First day of the week, very early in the morning,

    ἐπὶ τὸ μνῆμα ἦλθον φέρουσαι ἃ ἡτοίμασαν ἀρώματα.

    they came unto the sepulchre bringing the spices ... prepared

    2 εὗρον δὲ τὸν λίθον ἀποκεκυλισμένον ἀπὸ τοῦ μνημείου,

    And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb

    [[...about which Mary Magdalene must have told them. (20:1-2)]]

    (καὶ) εἰσελθοῦσαι (δὲ) οὐχ εὗρον τὸ σῶμα τοῦ Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ.

    but entering, found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

    4 καὶ ἐγένετο ἐν τῷ ἀπο(δια-)ρεῖσθαι αὐτὰς περὶ τούτου

    And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout,

    καὶ ἰδοὺ ἄνδρες δύο ἐπέστησαν αὐταῖς ἐν ἐσθῆτι(τεσιν) ἀστραπτούσῃ·

    behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

    5 ἐμφόβων δὲ γενομένων αὐτῶν καὶ κλινουσῶν τὰ πρόσωπα εἰς τὴν

    And as they were afraid and bowed down their faces to the

    γῆν, εἶπα(ο)ν πρὸς αὐτάς Τί ζητεῖτε τὸν ζῶντα

    earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living

    μετὰ τῶν νεκρῶν;6 οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε, ἀλλὰ ἠγέρθη.

    among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen:

    μνήσθητε ὡς ἐλάλησεν ὑμῖν ἔτι ὢν ἐν τῇ Γαλιλαίᾳ,

    remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee.

    7 λέγων τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ὅτι δεῖ παραδοθῆναι

    saying, The Son of man must be delivered

    εἰς χεῖρας ἀνθρώπων ἁμαρτωλῶν καὶ σταυρωθῆναι καὶ τῇ

    into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the

    τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ ἀναστῆναι.8 καὶ ἐμνήσθησαν τῶν ῥημάτων αὐτοῦ,

    third day rise again. 8 And they remembered his words.

    9 καὶ ὑποστρέψασαι ἀπὸ τοῦ μνημείου ἀπήγγειλαν ταῦτα πάντα

    And they returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things

    τοῖς ἕνδεκα καὶ πᾶσιν τοῖς λοιποῖς.11 καὶ ἐφάνησαν ἐνώπιον

    unto the eleven, and to all the rest. 11 And their words seemed to

    αὐτῶν ὡσεὶ λῆρος τὰ ῥήματα ταῦτα (αὐτῶν), καὶ ἠπίστουν αὐταῖς.

    them as idle tales, and they believed them not. [Mk16:8]

    10 ἦσαν δὲ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ Μαρία καὶ Ἰωάν(ν)α

    It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna,

    καὶ Μαρία ἡ Ἰακώβου· καὶ αἱ λοιπαὶ σὺν αὐταῖς

    and Mary of James, and other with them.

    ἔλεγον πρὸς τοὺς ἀποστόλους ταῦτα.

    which told these things unto the disciples.


    Second Visit: Women look again

    Mark 16:2-8

    καὶ λίαν πρωῒ τῇ μιᾷ (τῆς μιᾶς) τῶν σαββάτων

    And very early in the morning the First Day of the week,

    ἔρχονται ἐπὶ τὸ μνῆμα(-εῖον), ἀνατείλαντος τοῦ ἡλίου.

    they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun

    3 καὶ ἔλεγον πρὸς ἑαυτάς Τίς ἀποκυλίσει ἡμῖν τὸν λίθον ἐκ

    And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away

    τῆς θύρας τοῦ μνημείου;4 καὶ ἀναβλέψασαι θεωροῦσιν

    the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked,

    ὅτι ἀνακεκύλισται ὁ λίθος· ἦν γὰρ μέγας σφόδρα.

    they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
     
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    5 καὶ εἰσελθοῦσαι εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον εἶδον νεανίσκον καθήμενον ἐν τοῖς

    And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a yong man sitting on the

    δεξιοῖς περιβεβλημένον στολὴν λευκήν, καὶ ἐξεθαμβήθησαν.

    right side, clothed in a long, white garment; and they were afrighted.

    6 ὁ δὲ λέγει αὐταῖς Μὴ ἐκθαμβεῖσθε· Ἰησοῦν ζητεῖτε

    And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus

    τὸν Ναζαρηνὸν τὸν ἐσταυρωμένον· ἠγέρθη, οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε·

    of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here.

    ἴδε ὁ τόπος ὅπου ἔθηκαν αὐτόν.[Lv23:20,21; 10,11 Ex15 o.a. v.16-18]

    Behold the place where they laid him.

    7 ἀλλὰ ὑπάγετε εἴπατε τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ καὶ τῷ Πέτρῳ

    But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter

    ὅτι Προάγει ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν· ἐκεῖ αὐτὸν ὄψεσθε,

    that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him,

    καθὼς εἶπεν ὑμῖν.8 καὶ ἐξελθοῦσαι ἔφυγον

    as he said unto you. 8 And they went out quickly, and fled

    ἀπὸ τοῦ μνημείου εἶχεν γὰρ (δὲ) αὐτὰς τρόμος καὶ ἔκστασις·

    from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed:

    καὶ οὐδενὶ οὐδὲν εἶπα(ο)ν· ἐφοβοῦντο γάρ.

    neither said they anything to any; for they were afraid.


    Third Visit: First Appearance

    John20:11

    Μαρία δὲ εἱστήκει πρὸς τῷ μνημείῳ ἔξω κλαίουσα (ἔξω).

    But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping:

    ὡς οὖν ἔκλαιεν, παρέκυψεν εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον,12 καὶ θεωρεῖ

    and as she wept, she stooped down into the sepulchre 12 And seeth

    δύο ἀγγέλους ἐν λευκοῖς καθεζομένους, ἕνα πρὸς τῇ κεφαλῇ καὶ

    two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and

    ἕνα πρὸς τοῖς ποσίν, ὅπου ἔκειτο τὸ σῶμα τοῦ Ἰησοῦ.

    the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

    13 καὶ λέγουσιν αὐτῇ ἐκεῖνοι Γύναι, τί κλαίεις;

    And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?

    λέγει αὐτοῖς ὅτι Ἦραν τὸν Κύριόν μου,

    She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord,

    καὶ οὐκ οἶδα ποῦ ἔθηκαν αὐτόν.(καὶ) ταῦτα εἰποῦσα

    and I know not where they have laid Him_when she had thus said,

    ἐστράφη εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω, καὶ θεωρεῖ τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἑστῶτα, καὶ οὐκ ᾔδει

    she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not

    ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν.λέγει αὐτῇ Ἰησοῦς Γύναι, τί

    that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why_weepest thou?

    κλαίεις; τίνα ζητεῖς; ἐκείνη δοκοῦσα ὅτι ὁ κηπουρός ἐστιν,

    Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener

    λέγει αὐτῷ Κύριε, εἰ σὺ ἐβάστασας αὐτόν, εἰπέ μοι ποῦ

    saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where

    ἔθηκας αὐτόν, κἀγὼ αὐτὸν ἀρῶ.16 λέγει αὐτῇ (ὁ) Ἰησοῦς

    thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her,

    Μαριάμ. στραφεῖσα ἐκείνη λέγει αὐτῷ

    Mary! She turned herself, and saith unto him,

    Ἑβραϊστί· Ῥαββουνεί (ὃ λέγεται Διδάσκαλε).

    Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

    17 λέγει αὐτῇ (ὁ) Ἰησοῦς Μή μου ἅπτου,

    Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;

    οὔπω γὰρ ἀναβέβηκα πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα (μου)·

    for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

    πορεύου δὲ πρὸς τοὺς ἀδελφούς μου καὶ εἰπὲ αὐτοῖς Ἀναβαίνω

    but go ye to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend

    πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα μου καὶ Πατέρα ὑμῶν καὶ Θεόν μου καὶ Θεὸν ὑμῶν.

    unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    = Mark 16:9

    Ἀναστὰς δὲ πρωῒ πρώτῃ σαββάτου ἐφάνη πρῶτον Μαρίᾳ…

    Now when Jesus was risen (he) early on the First Day appeared first to Mary Magdalene

    John20:18

    ἔρχεται Μαριὰμ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ ἀγγέλλουσα τοῖς μαθηταῖς ὅτι

    Mary came and told the disciples that

    Ἑώρακα τὸν Κύριον, καὶ ταῦτα εἶπεν αὐτῇ.

    she had seen the Lord, and he had spoken these things unto her.

    Mark 16:10

    ἐκείνη πορευθεῖσα ἀπήγγειλεν τοῖς μετ’ αὐτοῦ γενομένοις

    She went and told them that had been with him,

    πενθοῦσι καὶ κλαίουσιν·11 κἀκεῖνοι ἀκούσαντες ὅτι ζῇ

    as they mourned and wept. 11 when they ... heard that He was alive,

    καὶ ἐθεάθη ὑπ’ αὐτῆς ἠπίστησαν.

    and had been seen of her, they believed not.
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    5 καὶ εἰσελθοῦσαι εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον εἶδον νεανίσκον καθήμενον ἐν τοῖς

    And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a yong man sitting on the

    δεξιοῖς περιβεβλημένον στολὴν λευκήν, καὶ ἐξεθαμβήθησαν.

    right side, clothed in a long, white garment; and they were afrighted.

    6 ὁ δὲ λέγει αὐταῖς Μὴ ἐκθαμβεῖσθε· Ἰησοῦν ζητεῖτε

    And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus

    τὸν Ναζαρηνὸν τὸν ἐσταυρωμένον· ἠγέρθη, οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε·

    of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here.

    ἴδε ὁ τόπος ὅπου ἔθηκαν αὐτόν.[Lv23:20,21; 10,11 Ex15 o.a. v.16-18]

    Behold the place where they laid him.

    7 ἀλλὰ ὑπάγετε εἴπατε τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ καὶ τῷ Πέτρῳ

    But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter

    ὅτι Προάγει ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν· ἐκεῖ αὐτὸν ὄψεσθε,

    that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him,

    καθὼς εἶπεν ὑμῖν.8 καὶ ἐξελθοῦσαι ἔφυγον

    as he said unto you. 8 And they went out quickly, and fled

    ἀπὸ τοῦ μνημείου εἶχεν γὰρ (δὲ) αὐτὰς τρόμος καὶ ἔκστασις·

    from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed:

    καὶ οὐδενὶ οὐδὲν εἶπα(ο)ν· ἐφοβοῦντο γάρ.

    neither said they anything to any; for they were afraid.


    Third Visit: First Appearance

    John20:11

    Μαρία δὲ εἱστήκει πρὸς τῷ μνημείῳ ἔξω κλαίουσα (ἔξω).

    But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping:

    ὡς οὖν ἔκλαιεν, παρέκυψεν εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον,12 καὶ θεωρεῖ

    and as she wept, she stooped down into the sepulchre 12 And seeth

    δύο ἀγγέλους ἐν λευκοῖς καθεζομένους, ἕνα πρὸς τῇ κεφαλῇ καὶ

    two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and

    ἕνα πρὸς τοῖς ποσίν, ὅπου ἔκειτο τὸ σῶμα τοῦ Ἰησοῦ.

    the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

    13 καὶ λέγουσιν αὐτῇ ἐκεῖνοι Γύναι, τί κλαίεις;

    And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?

    λέγει αὐτοῖς ὅτι Ἦραν τὸν Κύριόν μου,

    She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord,

    καὶ οὐκ οἶδα ποῦ ἔθηκαν αὐτόν.(καὶ) ταῦτα εἰποῦσα

    and I know not where they have laid Him_when she had thus said,

    ἐστράφη εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω, καὶ θεωρεῖ τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἑστῶτα, καὶ οὐκ ᾔδει

    she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not

    ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν.λέγει αὐτῇ Ἰησοῦς Γύναι, τί

    that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why_weepest thou?

    κλαίεις; τίνα ζητεῖς; ἐκείνη δοκοῦσα ὅτι ὁ κηπουρός ἐστιν,

    Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener

    λέγει αὐτῷ Κύριε, εἰ σὺ ἐβάστασας αὐτόν, εἰπέ μοι ποῦ

    saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where

    ἔθηκας αὐτόν, κἀγὼ αὐτὸν ἀρῶ.16 λέγει αὐτῇ (ὁ) Ἰησοῦς

    thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her,

    Μαριάμ. στραφεῖσα ἐκείνη λέγει αὐτῷ

    Mary! She turned herself, and saith unto him,

    Ἑβραϊστί· Ῥαββουνεί (ὃ λέγεται Διδάσκαλε).

    Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

    17 λέγει αὐτῇ (ὁ) Ἰησοῦς Μή μου ἅπτου,

    Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;

    οὔπω γὰρ ἀναβέβηκα πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα (μου)·

    for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

    πορεύου δὲ πρὸς τοὺς ἀδελφούς μου καὶ εἰπὲ αὐτοῖς Ἀναβαίνω

    but go ye to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend

    πρὸς τὸν Πατέρα μου καὶ Πατέρα ὑμῶν καὶ Θεόν μου καὶ Θεὸν ὑμῶν.

    unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    = Mark 16:9

    Ἀναστὰς δὲ πρωῒ πρώτῃ σαββάτου ἐφάνη πρῶτον Μαρίᾳ…

    Now when Jesus was risen (he) early on the First Day appeared first to Mary Magdalene

    John20:18

    ἔρχεται Μαριὰμ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ ἀγγέλλουσα τοῖς μαθηταῖς ὅτι

    Mary came and told the disciples that

    Ἑώρακα τὸν Κύριον, καὶ ταῦτα εἶπεν αὐτῇ.

    she had seen the Lord, and he had spoken these things unto her.

    Mark 16:10

    ἐκείνη πορευθεῖσα ἀπήγγειλεν τοῖς μετ’ αὐτοῦ γενομένοις

    She went and told them that had been with him,

    πενθοῦσι καὶ κλαίουσιν·11 κἀκεῖνοι ἀκούσαντες ὅτι ζῇ

    as they mourned and wept. 11 when they ... heard that He was alive,

    καὶ ἐθεάθη ὑπ’ αὐτῆς ἠπίστησαν.

    and had been seen of her, they believed not.
     
  4. Hark

    Hark
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    Mark 16:1-9 is all about the first visit. Verse 9 is just a recap to the first visit to explain what Mary Magdalene had done after that first visit in verse 10.
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Verse 9 a "~recap to ... that first visit in verse 10~"!? -- which "~visit in verse~"?

    You perhaps meant verse 10 is a ~recap to~ verse 9?

    Then how is it possible in verse 8 it says, "neither said they anything to anyone, for they were afraid"?

    And how in verse 10 it says "She went and told them that He was alive, and had been seen of her", but in 1 to 8 He had not been seen by any?

    And why in verses 1-8 it says "they", but in 9,10 it says Mary Magdalene?

    And why it says, "to Mary Magdalene first" and nowhere to any other(s)?

    Because Mark 16a is not about a visit to the tomb, but to the grocers; and Mark 16:1b is about the three women’s intention “that they MAY anoint Him when they WOULD go”.

    Why would they go? Because Mary Magdalene earlier that night “while still being early of dark / dusk of evening” had seen the stone was cast away from the tomb. John 20:1,2; Then she ran back and told everyone about it—the other women as well.

    Why would they nevertheless go “with their spices prepared and ready” to anoint the body? Because they must have believed the body was in the tomb still, despite Mary Magdalene had told them she thought the body was taken elsewhere by who knows who. “But when they went into the tomb, they found not the body” ---their FIRST visit at the tomb—Luke 24:1-3.

    Mark 16:2-8 then was their “~recap~” visit when they “reviewed” the situation and “checked up the stone” in order to find an answer to their question “Who would cast the stone away for us—it is so big!?”—their SECOND visit at the tomb. “So they fled from the grave and told no one …”,

    “… BUT Mary Magdalene HAD HAD STOOD AFTER next to the tomb”—her FOURTH time at the tomb when Jesus “first appeared to Mary Magdalene early on the First Day of the week.”

    Therefore, Mark contains three, four visits at the tomb and Mark 16:1-9 is not, “~all about the first visit~” or only one visit. That is the Sunday-sacredness figment of most clever minds.
     
  6. Hark

    Hark
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    Yes, sometime I am not clear in my posting. Let's review; sticking to one reference for clarity's sake, starting with verse 7.

    Mark 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. 8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

    #1. The angel told the women to tell the disciples.

    #2. Verse 8 testified to how they went on their way, telling no one along the way for they were afraid.

    Then the recap or flashback for reference sake begins...

    9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

    It was Mary Magdalene that did what the angel told them to do.

    12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

    And sure enough, later on, the disciples met Jesus.

    So that is why I do not see verse 8 as saying that the women said nothing at all to anyone at all when in verse 7, the angel told them to tell the disciples.

    I read that when the angel told them to go their way and tell the disciples, the women were afraid to say anything along the way because they were going straight to the disciples to tell them what the angel told them to say, but of course, only one will do, and it was Mary Magdalene that had told them. It appeared to me that the women took the angel's word to go their way to tell the disciples like a commandment as in do that and nobody else until they had performed the angel's command.

    And so verses 9-11 was Mary Magdalene doing what the angel told them to do in verse 7 as this was all stemming from the first visit.

    Just sharing a fresh pair of eyes on the reading as to why I just see one visit from the multiple ones you are seeing.
     
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Re: "~the angel told them to tell the disciples.~"

    It does not mean they obliged. Instead it is stated they did not oblige. No assumptions.

    Different angels at different times "~told them to tell the disciples.~",
    Every time the angel(s)' 'message' was different, reflecting different occasions and different locations precisely and, different circumstances, different women who received the messages, differently reacting on each occasion, different times of night given and in between different visits of the women, even more visits by men!

    Therefore here's the four times one or more angels told the women to go tell the disciples ---WHICH DO NOT INCLUDE THE ONE TIME JESUS TOLD MARY, Himself . . . WHEN HE APPEARED TO HER : in John 20:11-17 REFERRED TO by Mark in 16:9,10 ---"When Jesus was risen viz., as-The-Risen early on the First Day APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first."

    NO one SAW Jesus rise! And "was risen" KJV, is NO Verb or action-word; but it is an Adjectival Adverbial Participle about what JESUS was like when He APPEARED and how He APPEARED. The Participle has all and exclusively, bearing on the Subject implied in itself and the Predicate exclusively related to itself.

    PS
    I forgot the three times ... not four times . . .

    On the First Day of the week”—angels told
    Luke
    24:6,7
    … εἶπαν πρὸς αὐτάς … ἄνδρες δύο …
    ... two men ... said unto them ...

    οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε, ἀλλὰἠγέρθη, μνήσθητε· ὡς
    He is not here, but is risen; remember how

    ἐλάλησεν ὑμῖν ἔτι ὢν ἐν τῇ Γαλιλαίᾳ,7 λέγων
    he spake unto you when He was yet in Galilee,7saying,

    τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦἀνθρώπου ὅτι δεῖ παραδοθῆναι εἰς χεῖρας ἀνθρώπων
    The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands

    ἁμαρτωλῶν καὶ σταυρωθῆναι καὶ τῇ τρίτῃἡμέρᾳἀναστῆναι.
    of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day RISE again.

    Mark16:6,7
    … νεανίσκος … λέγει αὐταῖς …
    ... a young man ... saith unto them ...

    Ἰησοῦν ζητεῖτε τὸν ἐσταυρωμένον· ἠγέρθη, οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε·
    Jesus of Nazareth which was crucified: he is risen, he is not here:

    ἀλλὰ … Προάγει ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν· … καθὼς εἶπεν ὑμῖν.
    he goeth before you into Galilee ... as he said unto you.

    Matthew28:6,7
    … ἀποκριθεὶς δὲὁἄγγελος εἶπεν ταῖς γυναιξίν . . .
    ... And the angel answered and said unto the women . . .

    Ἰησοῦν τὸν ἐσταυρωμένον ζητεῖτε·6 οὐκ ἔστιν ὧδε·
    Ye seek Jesus which was crucified.6He is not here;

    ἠγέρθη γὰρ καθὼς εἶπεν· δεῦτε ἴδετε τὸν τόπον
    for he is risen as he said.Come see the place

    ὅπου ἔκειτο. 7 εἴπατε ὅτι Ἠγέρθη ἀπὸ τῶν νεκρῶν.
    where the Lord lay.7Go tell that He is risen from the dead;

    προάγει ὑμᾶς εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν, ἐκεῖ αὐτὸν ὄψεσθε.
    he goeth before you into Galilee; there ye shall see him.
     
    #7 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  8. Hark

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    I still say it is the same event; each gospel writer recollected differently; one remembering more and others just what was needed to be written.

    If you consider a car accident at a busy intersection, the police would get a variety reports from the witnesses; some remembering more than others; some reporting in a certain way as they saw fit from their point of view while some may be specific in reporting something, but not everything to give what they deem was important for the police officer to know while a few may be reporting everything, but essentially, you can get a pretty good idea of everything that happened that day when Jesus had risen.

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Visits at the tomb “on the First Day


    1) “Mary sees the stone removed”, “while being early darkness still”, dusk. Then Peter and John go to the tomb to see what Mary has told them. (Jn20:1-10)


    2) “Earliest morning- darkness”, just after midnight, “the two women” (variant – the two Marys), “and certain others with them”, for the first time, “came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices they had prepared”. (Lk24:1) “They returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest.” (“Then Peter stood up and ran to the tomb; and bending low over, he saw the linen clothes. He went back, wandering by himself about that what had happened.” (Lk24:9-12) Cf. John's account in 20:1-10. Luke talks of another visit by Peter, because for one thing, he doesn't mention John.)


    3) These women to make sure, a second time came to the tomb “very early before sunrise”. (Mk16:2)


    4) Mary from after the others had fled in fear (Mk16:8) “had had stood after without at the grave” (Jn20:11). At the time a gardener should begin work, about sunrise, Jesus “early … first appeared to Mary”. (Mk16:9)


    5) Soon after – after they a third time have visited the tomb and “the angel explained” to them what had happened during the Resurrection – Jesus appears to the other women “as they went to tell his disciples”. (Mt28:5, 9)


    Mary went to the tomb, three times, Jn20:1, Lk24:1, Mk16:2, and Mk16:9 when she “had remained standing behind” until, Jn20:11, Jesus appeared to her, “first”, Mk16:9, and alone, “at the grave”, Jn20:16.

    The other women also went to the tomb, three times, Lk24:1, Mk16:2, and Mt28:5 when “the angel explained” to them what had happened during the Resurrection, and Jesus, as “they went to tell his disciples”, appeared to them. (Mt28:5, 9)

    The answer to the ‘Easter enigma’ (John Wenham) is simple: Each Gospel contributed to the whole with one of several sources; each added a personal part that, put together, will bring the whole story of the Resurrection into proper perspective.

    Tradition – that is, the Sunday-resurrection approach – makes of these several stories of several visits, the one and simultaneous occasion of Jesus’ resurrection. Contradictions, discrepancies and total confusion are the inevitable result! It was bad enough that this ‘solution’ to a self-created ‘riddle’ was ever offered just to protect Sunday’s presumed status of being the day of the Resurrection. It became a comedy of tragic proportions when Sunday-protagonists began to defend their presumptuousness through unlawful improvements on the Scriptures.


    First thing ever and always:

    No Scripture speaks directly of Jesus' resurrection.


    Next thing ever and always first:

    Matthew supplies the Only circumstantial 'evidence' surrounding the Resurrection. No other Gospel does.


    Third thing of first importance:

    The Gospels don't give a single 'eye-witness' or 'eye-witness account' of the Resurrection as such. No human being saw, and not even "the angel of the Lord" looked on and saw Jesus rise inside the grave. No; the record states he cast the stone out of the door-opening of the grave and then went and sat on it, outside. For what happened in the grave with The Dead was God in full fellowship of the Trinity (Klaas Schilder) raising Him from the dead. (So if the dead could see, the dead would have been the only ones who saw live how God raised Christ from the dead.)


    Following fact of first importance:

    God revealed to the angel and / or angels and gave them command to go witness to human beings the Truth and Reality of Jesus' resurrection.


    Therefore it is the report or 'witness' of the angel/s and ultimately the witness of God which we believe. Paul says, "Great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified (confirmed true) in the Spirit, Seen of Angels, Preached, unto the Gentiles, Believed on, in the world, received up, into glory." 1Tm3:16. This is all, speaking of Jesus in resurrection from the dead!


    Only now, does the revelation of the mystery of godliness become clear to human beings where, when, and as, the angel and or angels actually Tell the women that Jesus had been raised from the dead. The angels tell the women at different events in time of Their, Several, Visits, At, the grave during Saturday night-Sunday morning. And this single witness of the angels Repeated at Several encounters at the tomb all Only tell of the Fact that Jesus did rise; no instance of the angel/s 'witness' contained more 'information' than the statement of the fact of the Resurrection --- except the Last 'witness', where in Mt28:5a, 1-4, "The angel explained / answered and told the women ...." the circumstantial 'evidence' that surrounded the Resurrection "On the Sabbath" as per verses 1-4.
     
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Note that each time angel(s) "told the women", the statement is made, "he goeth before you into Galilee; there ye shall see him."

    But He was seen by the two disciples who were on their way to Emmaus near Jerusalem IN JUDAH, on the First Day of the week already ---not in Galilee considerable time after.

    So what is the meaning of this statement?

    I believe it was meant to say to the disciples Christ had finished the Passover-Suffering of Yahweh. Just like at the exodus the LORD went before the redeemed forth out of Egypt and went before them out into the wilderness of Israel’s journeying about, so Jesus had finished the salvation of his Church and had gone out into the world before his People to be seen and known by the world outside the wicked and rejected city of Jerusalem and the old covenant of Israel. The LORD had “passed through” and “had passed over” – “had suffered” and finished salvation prepared from before the foundation of the world for the People of God.
     
  11. vooks

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    All of Gehard's nonsense to prop a Saturday resurrection.

    What insanity believes that the women made three trips TO ANOINT Jesus Christ and on EVERY trip angels informed them that Jesus was resurrected?

    The OP is projecting his madness on the sacred actors of the Resurrection narrative
     
  12. vooks

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    Here is an extremely simple question(s) for you;

    Matthew 28:9-10 (KJV)
    And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. 10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

    The women are leaving the tomb when they run into the resurrected savior.
    What trip was this,
    (a) First
    (b) Second
    (c) Third
     
  13. Hark

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    It would have been better to just ask...

    "The women made three trips TO ANOINT Jesus Christ and on EVERY trip angels informed them that Jesus was resurrected?"

    Stick to the topic without debasing the poster, and maybe the Lord will help the poster see the truth that he is reading all of this in the wrong way.

    If the Lord helps the poster to see the error, it will not be by debasing the poster. What I had quoted from you was all that was needed to share.

    It was simple and straightforward and the truth. It doesn't need anything else to shame the poster when everybody here is still learning in Christ and we will never stop learning till we are Home.

    1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

    Colossians 4:5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

    2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
     
  14. vooks

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    Do you wish to go through my posts before I post them?
     
  15. Hark

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    Sorry. I can't do that for you, but Jesus can when you trust Him to do it.

    I need Him just as much as you do when serving Him.
     
  16. vooks

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    Then stop acting in His stead
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    My answer:


    No, the women did not make three trips TO ANOINT Jesus; They only went once. Mark alludes to that visit in 16:1b, "they would anoint Him when they would go (to anoint Him".


    Now where did they actually "arrive at the grave CARRYING THEIR SPICES READY (to anoint Him)"?


    In Luke 24:1-3 when "they got to the tomb, saw the stone away, entered in, FOUND NOT the body." That was "On the First Day of the week earliest / deepest of morning of night" just after midnight.


    Luke records this occasion again in 24:22-24.


    Angels also have not "on EVERY trip informed them that Jesus was resurrected".


    TEN TIMES had the grave been visited. Mary Magdalene was the first person who saw the stone was cast away from the tomb; in other words, who discovered the tomb was opened. THERE WAS NO ANGEL OR ANGELS.


    The several women who went to anoint Him THINKING HE WAS IN THE TOMB STILL, discover the body was not there and that the grave was EMPTY.

    TWO angels spoke to those women.


    Then women “again went and again saw the stone” according to Mark 16:2-8.

    One angel spoke to them.


    When “Mary had had stood after at the grave” in John 20:11-17, she saw TWO angels but they only asked her why she cried. They ‘reported’ nothing about Jesus’ whereabouts.


    Naturally not, because Jesus at that moment approached the grave from the direction of the garden and appeared to Mary.


    Then when the OTHER women to whom Jesus had NOT appeared yet, had gone to the grave “and the ANGEL EXPLAINED” to them what had happened “On the Sabbath Day” before, and told them to go tell the disciples He was raised, it was the last time an angel or angels ~reported~ anything to anyone.
     
    #17 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    It was neither the first, nor the second, nor the third visit at the tomb in that night of 'Saturday evening' and 'Sunday morning'.

    It was the last visit of anybody ever at the tomb -- the empty tomb, by several unidentified women OTHER THAN Mary Magdalene to whom Jesus had had already "APPEARED, first, early on the First Day of the week AS THE RISEN ONE" -- 'ANASTAS'.
     
  19. vooks

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    O O
    You are inconsistent in your arguments which makes it impossible to reason with you. That's why I call your ramblings insanity.

    You said the women made three visits, recognize this to be a visit, a 'last' visit but deny it is none of the threeO O

    Question again

    Matthew 28:9-10 (KJV)
    And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. 10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.


    Was this visit to the tomb the women's first,second, third or fourth?
     
    #19 vooks, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    It is not my, GE's, "~insanity (that) believes that the women made three trips TO ANOINT Jesus Christ~"

    and it is not my, GE's "~insanity (that) believes that ... on EVERY trip angels informed them that Jesus was resurrected~" ... simply.
     

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