Marriage/divorce/remarriage/adultery

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by BrotherJoseph, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. BrotherJoseph

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    Brothers,

    I have found among Baptists that there are many different interpretations of scripture on the subject of divorce and remarriage. Under what circumstances do you believe divorce is Biblically justified and based upon what scriptures? Further, under what circumstances (if any) do you believe a brother or sister is Biblically justified in getting remarried (please provide scripture to support your reply)? Finally, do you think an individual who is divorced without Biblical grounds, then remarries while their former spouse is still alive is in a state of continual adultery and is thus considered an adulterer because Jesus declared, "... Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. " (Luke 16:17, 18)? Should such an individual still be considered a candidate for church membership despite Paul declaring in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" ? If you think this does not apply to church membership, what do you believe this verse applies to? I have just recently begun to study this subject and would be interested in a Biblical discussion on the matter to hear the opinions and thoughts of others.

    God bless,

    Brother Joe
     
    #1 BrotherJoseph, Oct 20, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  2. John Public

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    It is pretty self-evident, no? Adultery is a sin unto death, Leviticus 20, and in former times would be rewarded with stoning as was Ai. For what sin was the man in adultery delivered unto Satan by the apostle Paul and the Corinthian church with his father's wife? Each time this occurs it is because of one of those sins unto death. If the goobernment were righteous it would do its biblical duty in exiling such a soul like how Jehoshaphat did the sodomites.

    Jesus our anointed said in Matthew 18 there is a process.
    •Brother X sins against God. Another tells him. He rejects
    •Sisters A & B are grabbed by Brother Y who rebuked A.
    They admonish him of that error. He being hard-hearted will not hear.
    •Concerned Sisters A & B with Brother Y go run to the bishop or maybe one of the elders to tell them of it. The next time the church assembles, the whole local body rebukes this person after hearing in the mouth of two or three every word established. Brother X becomes furious; he storms out for being rebuked for adultering against his wife.
    Jesus, the author & finisher of the faith, denies him before the Father because Brother X denies Jesus, and instructs the savvy reader to regard this person as an heathen & publican.
    Toss the sinner out so his leaven destroys only himself!
     
  3. John Public

    John Public
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    Ellaborating on Leviticus 20,
    10And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

    11And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    12And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

    13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall beupon them.

    14And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

    And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

    19And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

    20And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

    21And if a man shall take his brother's wife, itis an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

    22Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
     
  4. BrotherJoseph

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    Hi Brother,

    I appreciate your input, but your comments in both of you posts did not answer any of original questions I created in my OP. Your comments were more to the matter of if one should be excommunicated for adultery. My questions differed from this- They are as follows- Under what circumstances do you believe divorce is Biblically justified and based upon what scriptures? Further, under what circumstances (if any) do you believe a brother or sister is Biblically justified in getting remarried (please provide scripture to support your reply)? Finally, do you think an individual who is divorced without Biblical grounds, then remarries while their former spouse is still alive is in a state of continual adultery and is thus considered an adulterer because Jesus declared, "... Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. " (Luke 16:17, 18)? Should such an individual still be considered a candidate for church membership despite Paul declaring in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" ? If you think this does not apply to church membership, what do you believe this verse applies to?

    God bless,

    Brother Joe
     
  5. John Public

    John Public
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    That DID answer your questions. If they have been guilty of a sin unto death, they need to be put out of the congregation so it be not polluted. That man in Corinthians was not allowed to fellowship but was left for Satan to ravage his flesh to death.
    There are threads on this if you look.
     
  6. BrotherJoseph

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    Hi again Brother John,

    My questions mainly dealt with adultery as it relates to remarriage and when remarriage should be Biblically allowed (if at all), what are all justifiable scriptural causes for divorce, and if the church should take in candidates for membership who were unbiblically divorced, then remarried to another, which according to Jesus is adultery when he declared, "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18). The man in the Corinthian church addresses none of these questions as he was already a member when he commited fornication, nor do we read of him being married or remarried. Also, the man in 1 Corinthians was dealing with the sin of fornication, not adultery, as we read, " It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife." (1 Corinthians 5:1). Adultery is sex with another other than your married spouse, while fornication is being unmarried and having sex with another, the latter was the case in the book of Corinthians. Hopefully someone will address my initial questions I would like to discuss from post number 1 in the OP.

    God bless,

    Brother Joe
     
  7. zrs6v4

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    To answer this question I think the counsel of God is that divorce is never justifiable. It always includes sin and its effects. While saying that Jesus does give us reason to believe that there are some extreme cases such as adultery where divorce (at least on one side of the marriage or the other) is not sin. Example: A husband cheats on his wife and the wife divorces the husband. The husband committed the grand sin, but what they do with it in moving forward must be according to God's will (In other words it can lead to all sorts of other sinful patterns). NT Scriptures to look at: (Mathew 5, Mark 10, Luke 16, 1 Cor. 7, Mathew 19, Romans 7 (I didnt go back to the Old Testament, but it is important to help contextualize the New).

    To pick an individual passage above, Mathew 5, how would the following questions be answered after reading:

    1. What was the culture like and what was their view on this subject that Jesus was reponding to?
    2. Would Jesus limit divorce to adultery only? What about murder? Example: A woman is married and has a child, the husband becomes an alcoholic and is abusive to the point of threat, is it LAWFUL for her to divorce?

    This is the more complicated part of the question because in God's eyes marriage is a covenant rather than a contract. In our world today people view it contractually and do not look to God in the sense that they vowed to a marriage covenant. I believe the heart of this issue when dealing with Mathew passages and 1 Cor 7 is how we view covenant. Key Questions here:

    1. Can we break our marriage covenant with God and start a new one with someone else?
    2. Is a marriage covenant life long in the sense that it cant dissolve until death of one party?
    3. What does Scripture say on how God deals with divorce covenentally?

    This is a great question, and to put it in a modern example: A Christian gets divorced due to adultery and remarries another man or woman. Later in life finds out Under no circumstances does God allow remarriage, what does he or she do? A. divorce again B. Stay married but remain in sin.

    I came to the conclusion in my research that there are unique circumstances that one can be remarried but one must uphold a high standard for the clear biblical teachings. The Jews in Jesus day had basically made divorce contractual and easy in a sense. Jesus response to them was that Marriage is a covenant made by God to be life long and is not easily wiped out by writing a certificate. Like Jesus' other teachings, divorce is a deep heart issue. if you divorce your wife for some shallow reason such as "She doesnt do this or that", "We dont love each other anymore", etc you have committed a dangerous sin that has deep sinful roots. On the other hand if there is a legitimate reason for divorce that includes a serious sin (adultery, murder, abuse, etc) You must at the very least separate. Paul says to remain with an unbeliever if they are not a believer and let them leave you. In a sense they are in a serious sin, but it isnt necessarily threatening to your life or your childrens lives.

    Again the key question is, Can a marriage covenant dissolve or did God create it in such a way that two cannot be separated spiritually?



    If someone is practicing any type of sinful lifestyle then it must be addressed according to the biblical mandate. If someone is breaking a clear commandment we must intervene for their sake and that of the church.

    If this question is narrowed to divorce and remarriage then it becomes dangerous to discuss church membership.
     
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  8. John Public

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    Fornication and adultery are in the same class of sins, as sins unto death. Does not matter. The general rule of thumb is that such a sin be cast away. What did Jesus say? It is written in the gospel of S. Matthew,
    7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

    8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

    9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

    10His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

    11But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

    12For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

    If we are discussing remarriage, as has been derived,
    it is never God's intention.
    Some were better to not ever marry in the first place, but live as holy eunuchs.
     
  9. convicted1

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    JP, you are of the ilk I grew up around and have purposed to avoid like the plague. You'd expect a woman to stay with her husband even after having to eat her food through a straw, because beatings are not a biblical excuse for divorce. o_O

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  10. John Public

    John Public
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    May God grant his servant grace to answer a fool in his folly, Proverbs 26. First of all, a scorner like you is not blessed according to psalm one. Now, as the child of a psychopathic sodomite who divorced my mother, I'm going to tell you that is easily the most foolish, pedantic, inane thing this evangelist has ever heard after he beat her. She left him, and we know now the divorce was good (even though she is not saved) since that devil was in sodomy during the marriage with others than his wife.
    Are you not pleased save but that which comes proccedeth forth out of your own anvil? Are you so opinionated as to not be able to read the passage as it does?
    Yet as proverbs six says, doing what God hates, you sow discord. Shame on you!
    Show me where in the Bible a woman should not separate if her husband is abusive; declare why she should remain when her safety & sanctity, bigoted one, is in jeopardy. May you live up to your username.
    Repent, and pluck the forest out of your eye.
     
  11. convicted1

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    Look, I do not approve of divorce as a means to just solely remarry someone else. Apostle Paul plainly stated if the unbeliever departs, let them depart. A Brother or Sister is not in bondage in such cases. I have a dear friend who married his ex-wife when they were both sinners. They were both 'saved' but later she told him she could not be a pastor's wife...he was an asst. pastor at that time. So she divorced him. He was free to remarry, but only in the Lord.

    Also, if sinners divorce and remarry before knowing the Lord, they will be saved if they come to Him in faith and repentance.

    Forgive me for my harsh post towards you. I was raised amongst ppl who were against taking ppl in their churches who were divorced and remarried before being saved. Then later on their spouse would divorce them, and suddenly they would see that divorce and remarriage was acceptable if they married in the Lord. As long as it did not concern them, they were anti-divorce as long as their healthy wife was by their side.

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    #11 convicted1, Oct 24, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
  12. convicted1

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    If they divorce and remarry whilst sinners, they will be forgiven of all sins if they come to Him in faith and repentance. If their spouse leaves them for another person(I am talking about this taking place after the one abandoned was saved and the one who left was lost), the believer is free to remarry, but only in the Lord.

    If both are saved, I do not believe for one second they will divorce. True believers know the importance of, the picture of marriage, being a picture of Christ and His bride, the church. They will fight to keep their marriage together.

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  13. BrotherJoseph

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    Brother Convited,

    As I only asked questions and quoted scriptures in this thread, but did not give my opinions I do not see how you came to such a conclusion regarding me?

    As far as a scriptural basis for a believer getting a divorce Jesus made one and only one. Jesus declared, "9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery". (Matthew 19:9) Did the disciples understand that this was very restrictive, indeed they did as they replied in the next verse, "10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry". (Matthew 19:10) Are you able to receive this saying BrotherConvicted, remember Jesus said "11 All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."? (Matthew 19:11)

    Now if a woman is being beat by her husband, as in the scenario you laid out, scripture does not prohibit a separation, but does it prohibit a divorce in such a case? I do not see how you can say it does not based on Matthew 19:9 when Jesus states, "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery.

    I also believe Paul makes an exception for a believer who is abandoned by their spouse to get a divorce in 1 Corinthians 7:15, "15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace", however, in such cases, neither has the right to remarry for that would constitute adultery (Matt 19:9). The woman (or man) in such a case has only one of two options: remain unmarried to anyone else, or reconcile to your spouse.

    If Paul was giving believers the right to remarry in 1 Corinthians 7:15–as long as they were divorced by their unbelieving spouses–then clearly, Jesus was wrong when He taught Matthew 19:9! Jesus said that there was only one exception for divorce and remarriage: sexual immorality (because He references the original Creation, both the permanence of marriage and the exception to remarriage were Jesus’ teachings for all humans–believers and unbelievers alike). To state that in 1 Cor 7:15, Paul gave another exception in cases of unbeliever initiated divorce would only serve to contradict the clear teaching of Christ in Matt 19:9 (which, Paul very evidently reinforced just five verses earlier).

    God bless,

    Brother Joe
     
  14. BrotherJoseph

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    Brother Convicted,
    I do not doubt for a second that the blood of Jesus covers even the sin of divorce.
    13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:13-14)

    As far as two believers getting a divorce, that is possible, you should not rule it out. David commited murder, adultery, then married Uriah's widow all while yet being a child of grace. I would not underestimate the depravity and capability of the flesh even after regeneration. Also remember, a church member at the church of Corinth was sleeping with his father's wife, yet Paul does not indicate the individual was unsaved, but rather implies the opposite when he instructs the church members, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5).

    Brother Joe

    .
     
  15. BrotherJoseph

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    Brother ZRS,

    One who unscripturaly gets a divorce and marries another is in the state of perpetual adultery as taught by our Lord. "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." (Matthew 19:9), therefore such a person as long as they remain remarried to their second spouse should not be allowed to join the church as Paul writes, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind" (1 Corinthians 6:9).

    Brother Joe
     
  16. zrs6v4

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    Ok, I know this isn't much of a conversation, but just answer a couple of questions please.

    Scenario, (You are counseling a man and woman who had been remarried for 2 years). The woman had previously been married and the man from her previous marriage was an alcoholic and continuously drove their 3 year old son while intoxicated. She separated, but the man never changed, but rather began to tell her he would murder her and her son if they came near. She divorced him and is now remarried.

    After being remarried, her and her husband began to read this post of yours and wonder what God thought of their remarriage so they came to you in person for a counseling session. They asked you what to do. You can advise them in one of the following ways, which is it?

    1. "Mrs so and so I'm sorry about your previous marriage. I see that you are now remarried and are trying to follow Jesus. He has a high view of marriage and I probably don't need to tell you why he hates divorce. Remarriage is full of challenges, maybe even more than a normal marriage, but leave your past behind and move forward and pursue Christ and let Him lead you by His grace."

    2. " It looks like you have committed a sin because you have divorced your husband under a circumstance that was not specifically listed in the bible. Furthermore you have sinned by remarrying as you are bound to your alcoholic husband by God's union. Therefore you must divorce your new husband in an act of repentance and remain unmarried or you will live in a continual state of sin and go to hell. You have no excuse because it was you who chose to be united in marriage to that devil of a man!"

    3. "Well, Mr and Mrs so and so I appreciate you coming to me for counsel. I just wanted to let you know that you are now in big trouble because you (mam) have not only divorced a man but also have remarried by which you have placed yourself in an unforgivable state of sin that cannot be reversed. You have married and divorced and what you have done cannot be unbroken. It really doesn't matter what you do from here on out because you are condemned as 1 Cor 6:9 says even if you separate. Sorry for the bad news, have a great day!"
     
  17. BrotherJoseph

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    Brother Zrs,

    Thanks for your reply. I just read it and it is late and I am preparing for bed, I will be busy all day tomorrow at church and with family and thus will not be on the board, but Lord willing I will reply to your post on Monday.

    God bless,

    Brother Joe
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    Would understand the scriptures teaching us that a Christian is freed up to remarry in the lord if the other party deserts them, or goes for the divorce, or if they were not married to a saved person, and they decided to leave just due to them now getting saved...

    Would also say that even if the person has not had a "biblical divorced/remarriage", that the lord would still see that new marriage as being legit, as he is the one that ordained one woman/one man in a relationship...
     
  19. percho

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    I believe the following is relative to the OP but am not sure how. Maybe JP could help me and others out.

    The house of Israel committed adultery and God put her away. Gave her a bill of divorce. Jer. 3 Also would not hurt to read Hosea.
    The house of Judah, who was in the land when Jesus was born in the flesh, saw that, yet they also committed adultery. Jer 3.

    Jesus came preaching the kingdom of God. Jesus said, except one be born again, one could not enter the kingdom of God, I assume that includes those above.

    Luke 16:16,17 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

    Following those two verses is the story / parable of the rich man and Lazarus with this verse preceding.

    Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Luke 16:18

    Why does that verse fall here, which is relative to the law and also relative to entering the kingdom of God? How is it relative to the rich man and Lazarus?

    The chapter ends: V 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

    BTW I agree with what JP wrote/posted.
     
  20. BrotherJoseph

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    Brother ZRS,

    Hi. I do not believe one who has gotten divorced and remarried another without Biblical cause should divorce their 2nd spouse (though looking back at what I posted I can see how one can have taken away that is what I implied). 1 Corinthians 7:27 makes this clear, "Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife." Also, I do not believe they go to hell as no scripture implies in the least adultery is the unpardonable sin. However, I do not believe the church should take such into her membership, Christ stated, "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery", therefore they are in a state of continual adultery and as scripture instructs us adulterers cannot inherit the "kingdom of God" in 1 Corinthians 6:9. I take the "kingdom of God" in that verse to mean the church, hot heaven, thus this person is NOT eligible for church membership. "IF" they are sincere about their belief according to Scripture then they must not bring reproach or possible consternation upon the church body. They need to remain with the one they are now married to by the law of the land; and if so inclined attend church services as a nonmember in quietude.

    Brother Joe
     

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