Marriage question

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Emily25069, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. Emily25069

    Emily25069
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    I have a dear friend.. sister actually, who is going through a very confusing time.

    Her and her husband have gone to an Independent Fundamental Baptist church their entire marriage. The church is very small.. no more than 30 people or so. My friend knew everybody, and was close with everybody. Her husband was the new guy.. he wasnt as "spiritually mature" as the other guys. He didnt have fellowship. The guys never invited him out. He was just basically alone..

    their marriage hit some tough times and in short they seperated for a very short while, but they have been back together for some time now.

    Ever since this incedent, her husband wont go to their small church. They know too much. They werent his friends to begin with. Its just not a good situation.

    Well, her husband want to try a different kind of church, and she is terribly confused.

    I am advising her to obey her husband 100%. Her old Pastor is advising her not to obey and stay at their church because her husband is not in the will of God, and she wont be helping him by going along with his godless decision.

    I know that all of you dont know too much of the situation, but I am of the mindset that if my the bible doesnt make acceptions about submitting and obeying unless we are dealing with sin.

    Can anybody agree/disagree with me. I am having such a hard time understanding how such a seemingly Godly man could advise her this way.
     
  2. dianetavegia

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    The wife should visit other churches with her husband in an effort to find a new church home. Under the circumstances, he is NOT asking her to do something against God's commandments and since this church never embraced him, he'd probably do better in a larger church where he could blend in until he is more learned and confident in scripture.

    Diane
     
  3. Petrel

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    I agree with you and dianetavegia that a move is a good idea. With 30 people there and with the husband not feeling accepted by them, it could be a very unpleasant situation and a drain on their marriage.

    I guess that she has been at the church quite a while and has close friends there? That makes the situation more difficult but still ultimately I think the right choice is leaving.

    Don't be too hard on the pastor. Pastors are people too, and their emotions can get in the way. He may feel like the husband is judging him and the church or that she is rejecting them when this is not the case.
     
  4. TexasSky

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    I think she should visit new churches with her husband. There are enough issues in their marriage without adding another one into it, and the man won't find the fellowship he needs in a church where the Pastor is telling his wife that she shouldn't follow her husband's spiritual guideance.

    As much as we women grouse about it, the bible is pretty clear on what a wife's attitude toward a spouse should be, and it doesn't let you off the hook if the husband is an unbeliever either. ;)
     
  5. servant-96

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    Agreed. The husband is in charge, not the pastor. The pastor is wrong to even give advise to her without the consent of the husband. They need to find another church.
     
  6. Rachel

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    That sounds like a good church to leave IMO. The Pastor is going against scripture by telling her to go against her husband in this. The Pastor is probably just mad that someone is leaving 'his' church.
    There are good churches out there, they just need to get out there and find one. One that they will both enjoy. Your sister can talk to them and do things with them outside of church too, if she misses them.
     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    1.What if the REAL problem is with the husband?

    Then he won't be happy at any church and he will drag her from congregation to congregation. Neither she nor he will find their role in God's church. What a spiritual waste simply because some people believe that submission means to grovel in blind obedience.

    2. What if the REAL problem is with the small church?

    If they truly are not embracing this man, then do they automatically leave? Could they not, as a couple, talk to the pastor and church leaders privately? If no headway is made, then they should leave. Not because the husband is "spiritually immature" and can't make friends, but because the church isn't reaching out to him for fellowship and growth.

    3. What if the REAL problem is with the wife?

    If the church is not reaching out to her husband, if the church is TRULY neglecting him for whatever reason, then she should have been the first one to raise the issue of leaving that church. If I were married to a "spiritually immature" man and my church neglected or mistreated him and would not embrace him, then he and I would have a long talk about his feelings and if he wanted to, we would find a church that reached out to the both of us for spiritual growth, both individually and as a couple.

    They are a lot of variables here, folks.

    We don't know them all.

    Peace-
    Scarlett O.
    <><
     
  8. Victory in Jesus

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    It sounds like you're a good friend, Emily. I have to agree with you, but I would advise him to try to get involved in some kind of service (Jr. Church, AWANA, greeter). I have a difficult time feeling like I fit in until I get involved in a church...get to know people.

    Generally speaking, whatever the group you join...church, social groups, even work...the more you get involved, the more you're going to feel part of that group. If he's just sitting on the pew every week, perhaps the other men feel he doesn't want to be around them (not that it's true, but the other guys have feelings too). This also brings up the possibility that he could be feeling rejection that isn't there...that the men want him there but don't know what to say to him.

    Or, it may be possible that he wants his wife with him and may feel jealous that she's off with her friends talking instead of being with her...or that he just doesn't enjoy sitting alone.

    When I'm in a new church (or anywhere there are strangers, for that matter), I freak out inside when my husband leaves me just to go to the restroom. I can't stand being alone in a crowd where there are strangers...and especially in church where people are more likely to talk to me. I want to crawl under a pew and die. It takes me a good four years to feel comfortable in a church...and until then, Hubby just has to wait till we get home. [​IMG]

    It's also possible he could be suffering from depression or anxiety...if so, getting involved can help that. It's hard initially, but he'd probably enjoy it.

    If these are some reasons he's not enjoying church (and actually, church isn't about what you get out of church...but what you put into it, anyway) then it's very possible he'll have the same problems in other churches.

    *****************
    I remember a story that went like this:
    A man leaves his old city and approaches a guard at the gate of a new city: "Are the people in this city nice?", the man asks the guard. "How were the people in your old city?" the guard asks. "They were nice", the man replied. "They're nice in our city, too", the guard says with confidence.

    Days pass and another man has left his city and approaches a guard at the gate of a new city: "Are the people in this city nice?", the man asks the guard. "How were the people in your old city?" the guard asks. "They were mean, wicked, hard to get along with", the man replied. "They're mean, wicked, hard to get along with in our city, too", the guard says with confidence.

    I'm not saying the problem lies in the husband of this couple. But if the problems are based more on his own problems (and I don't know this man), then he may have problems in other churches, also.
    *****************

    I personally think he should really give his current church a really hard go at it. Give it all he's got. If he still feels out of place, then he should try another church.

    As a wife, I think she should talk to him and encourage him to stay and give it all he's got for a couple of months. But the ultimate decision should be his. If he feels that strongly that this isn't where God wants his family to be, then he shohuld look around. They definately need to pray about this together.

    Perhaps he wants a fresh start at a church where they are both strangers to everyone in the church and both get to know others together...where nobody knows their background. Perhaps they can join a service together...go on visitation together, etc. This would strengthen their marriage and help bring them both closer to the Lord. It gives them something to talk about and they will ultimately get to know others in the church as well.

    He is the spiritual leader in the home. Whatever his decision, she needs to let him lead. She should encourage him to have devotions...family and personal...to get involved in church, etc...but he has to lead and she needs to allow him...to encourage him and look up to him. If she digs her heels in the ground at this point, he may leave the church altogether and turn his back on God. I mean, you've got to give him credit for wanting to look for a new church instead of wanting to stay home, right?

    But, this post is based mostly on my opinions and thoughts (except for him being the spiritual leader, which is biblical).

    [ August 02, 2005, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Victory in Jesus ]
     
  9. Songbird

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    I have to agree and say if the husband is wanting to go church but a different church then they should go and find one where they both feel comfortable to worship at. It's important to worship together as a family. And her relationship w/her husband is second only to her relationship w/the Lord. It should also be a church where both of them can find areas of ministry to get involved in.

    My dh was a part of a small church and they remained small b/c (in my opinion), they were legalistic and judgmental--new people rarely stayed. I am not saying all small churches have that problem. Not all churches are meant to be mega churches.

    Before we got married it was agreed that we would be Baptist. I was raised in another denomination albeit a Bible-believing church. So, the transition was easy for me.

    My dh is flourishing in the new church. We've been there over 3 years. In the other church he had no avenues to minister using the gifts God had given him. He became depressed and discouraged. Our current pastor encourages him to pursue the call of God on his life. The men have embraced him and he has good fellowship w/them. I don't feel judged like I did when I went to his former church.

    It was a hard move for my dh b/c the pastor was one of his best friends and the one that had led him to the Lord.

    But this pastor was/is controlling to the point he tells his followers that they need to homeschool their kids (nothing wrong w/that unless the parents don't feel led to do that). He tells them that no one should go to college--no one. He has other odd beliefs. Would you believe he refused to send a letter of transfer when dh and I joined the new church. I felt like that was a slap in the face for my dh. But he was able to join by statement of faith.

    So, she needs to make this a matter of prayer. Then they should start visiting churches. God will give them direction.
     
  10. Emily25069

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    Thank you all so much for your input.

    Basically, her husband is a very VERY very shy guy. He doenst talk much, even when you ask him a direct question. I believe that he is going to have trouble making friends at any church where the people are not outgoing to him FIRST. It is just his personality type. I am married to his brother and my husband confirms that he has been like this forever.

    The problem lies in that he does not necessarily want to go to a baptist church anymore. He wants to try a different type of church. This is why the Pastor is recommending that my friend not follow her husband. "obviously" if he doesnt want to go to a baptist church, then he is out of God's will.

    In my personal opinion, if she just goes with him, he will figure out wrong teaching right from the get go. For one thing, they are KJV-only, and I dont know that they will find anything KJV only outside of a baptist church. That is going to hit her husband right away.

    I have been to their church. I loved the closeness of it, and I loved the hard preaching. Her husband (we will call him Joe) says that the hard preaching is really getting to him in a negative way. While he believes that hard preaching is good and has its place, there is just too much of it and every sunday and wednesday,he walks out of there severly depressed and low. He believes that that just cant be right. He shouldnt be going to church every week to hear about how bad he is. He is right. The church is unbalanced in that respect. They spend 90 percent of time on sin and about 10 on the love of Christ. Joe has depression issues in general, and this church was really hurting them.

    Aside from that fact, Joe and Katy were seperated for a while for some very unfortunate reasons, and the church knows. Im not sure how as the counseling sessions were meant to be confidential, but through the grapevine, a lot of the church knows what went on, and Joe is very ashamed and he just has a hard time going back there. I would have a hard time as well.

    I really do thank you for all of your input. I think that there are many problems going on, but I think in the end, that Katy will honor God by honoring Joe.

    It is my conviction that the reason wives are commanded to submit to their husbands is because sometimes the husbands WILL do some silly things that may not seem right. Im not talking about outright sin here, but I am talking about things that may seem out of God's will. I have my own testimony in this area which is a whole nother post on a different topic, but I just pray that my sister (in-law, but we are very close) obeys her bible as opposed to her pastor.
     
  11. IveyLeaguer

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    Interesting problem. And a lot of outstanding advice, IMHO. It blessed me just reading it.

    I
     
  12. IveyLeaguer

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    Sorry, connection problems. I was going to say: I take a lot of heat, and gladly so, for not compromising the Word for any reason including the present hot-button trends of 'unity' and 'success' in the church through 'whatever it takes'. But God's truth can be distorted in both directions and you have rightly pointed that out. I think you are handling the situation wisely, and may God bless everyone involved.
     
  13. 4His_glory

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    Sounds like the pastor is a bit of a dictator, it would probably be best to go to another church. The husband is in no way outside of God's will by going to another church because he dosen't feel comfortable where he is at. If the church is unwilling to love him and be his friend in a time when he need the spirtiual edification the most, it is time to move.
     
  14. Songbird

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    I'd be embarrassed too, if what I said in a counseling session was not held in strict confidence. My dh may be doing some counseling and he knows I will not ask about it. Sounds like her husband may have lost respect, trust for the pastor. When that happens it's hard to listen to his preaching.

    I believe also the Word shouldn't be compromised, but God's Word tells of His love for us. There's so much about grace and forgiveness, too. People not only need to hear about sin, but that there's a way out and God isn't waiting to hit us over the heard w/a hammer when we sin. He's waiting to embrace us and restore us after we have repented.

    Take care.

    Linda
     
  15. Emily25069

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    Thank you all.

    This is probably going to be an end of this post. I think she has made her mind up about the situation, so all there is to do now is pray for them. I dont know if it is the right decision.

    Thank you for all of your thoughts. It really just for me. I needed the confirmation that I was giving her sound advice. I really do think that I was, as submission is a big subject on my heart, but the fact that her Pastor didnt agree kind of set me off track as well.
     
  16. Johnv

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    This does not appear to be an issue of morals. I disagree with the pastor here, as it's not an issue of Godliness.

    If he's not comfortable at the church, he's not comfortable. Both the husband and wife should look for a church home where they are both comfortable. The finding of a church home should be one that is a completely mutual decision where both agree. If the wife is comfortable anywhere, so long as they can worship together, then let the husband make the final choice.
     
  17. AVL1984

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    Emily,

    I have found in 33 + years that I was in the Independent Fundamental Baptist movement, many of the pastors felt they had more authority in the people's lives than the Bible, God, and even the husband. In the case of my wife and me, our pastor back in the 1980's was telling my wife to come to church on Sunday mornings...EVERY Sunday morning, though I had to work nights, and some Sunday mornings I truly needed her at home because I was ill. He told her "God" would take care of me, to come anyhow. In one case she called him and he advised her to disregard my wishes and to come anyway, though I was a regular member of the church, tithing, and soulwinning. He told her I was out of the will of God, didn't have enough faith, etc, and she took the car and set out for church. Because of this cult-like mentality in this church, I called the police (she took the car registered in my name only that morning) and I reported the car stolen. They stopped her, and she came home with them behind. I didn't press charges, but we never did go back to that church.

    That pastor is wrong to be telling the woman to disregard her husbands request...period. God set the order of things, and the pastor isn't the head of the household.

    In my mother's case, after my father died, my mother felt led to move to Arizona to help in my now ex-brother in laws church. Her pastor in North Augusta, SC refused to give her "permission" or blessing to go. He had no place in giving her permission or anything else. She was under 60, the church wasn't supporting her financially, her family was, and most of us were in favor of her moving to AZ if that was what she believed the Lord was leading her to do. She eventually left and went to AZ anyhow.

    Pastors like this are overstepping their God given authority in the church and interfering where they have no right to interfere.

    I'll be praying for your friends. I hope they'll not fall victim to the often found cult-like mentality in many IFB churches. Not all are like that. Many are good, sound churches with pastors who know what they should do and shouldn't do.

    God bless them and you. [​IMG]
     
  18. Emily25069

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    AVL

    I agree with you.
    She has decided to stay at her church. She says that Joe does not want to go to church at all, and until he wants to go somewhere she is going to stay with her church family.

    I can understand that, because as long as he is fine with it, there really isnt any reason why she shouldnt be in church at least.

    My only concern is that this will leave Joe in the dust a little bit. Im concerned that he never will get back into a church if she makes this solid decision.

    I suppose though, that it is left in Joe's hands. It's his fault for being too lazy to get off his tuckus on Sunday mornings, so I suppose the ball is in his court, and if he wants to switch churches, then he needs to wake up and lead!
     
  19. 4His_glory

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    He may never go back to church if she is going to a church with a pastor like that. Just because a man is a pator does not make him a godly man. When they overstep there boundries like this one did, they will do so in other areas as well.
     
  20. menageriekeeper

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    As someone who's been there:

    Before she writes off his opinion entirely, she should at least make plans to visit this church or that. If he still won't go on Sunday morning after she has expressed a willingness to go somewhere else, then she should suit herself.

    I'm actually considering changing churches myself at the moment in one more attempt to find a church where my husband will attend more than on Easter Sunday. I doubt it will make a difference because I know my husband.

    I'm not sure if we were told whether or not children were involved. If not, this issue of church needs to be settled before they have them. Speaking from experience, it is VERY hard to raise children for the Lord in a home where the parents have two decidedly different ideas about what the Lord requires of us in the way of fellowshipping with other Christians. The lack of spiritual leadership from the head of the household can cause confusion in the children. And eventually they will say, "Dad doesn't go to church, why should I?" This puts the wife/mother in the very uncomfortable position of pointing out the disobedience of the husband. Hard, hard, hard place to be.

    Just a bit of warning.....
     

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