Matt. 7:24-27 and Lordship

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by canadyjd, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    Perhaps we could discuss the meaning of a specific passage of Scripture as it relates to the Lordship Salvation issue? Let's look at Matt. 7:24-27. This is the summoning up of the Sermon on the Mount. Beginning in Chapter 5, Jesus presents to those around Him what being a child of the Kingdom of God demands. It demands a higher righteousness. It demands action.

    "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. (25) And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. (26) Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. (27) The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."

    Jesus gives a picture of two kinds of people. Both hear His words. One(the wise man) "acts" on them. The other (the foolish man) "does not act" on them. Jesus does not picture a third kind (a wise man who, nevertheless, does not act on the words of Christ); or a fourth kind (a foolish man who, nevertheless, acts on the words of Christ).

    The fact a man "acts" on or does not "act" on the words of Christ is the most important point of this passage.

    The allusion to the storm is persecution for the sake of Christ (which is how the Sermon on the Mount began).

    The one who "fell" because of the storm (persecution) must be falling away from Christ.

    1. Is the wise man "saved"? I say yes. The fact he responded to the words of Christ with action demonstrated his faith. His action demonstrated Christ was Lord of his life (even if he didn't understand all the theology involved).

    2. Is the foolish man "lost"? I say yes. The fact he didn't respond to the words of Christ with appropriate action demonstrated his lack of faith, thus his "great fall". His lack of action demonstrated Christ was not Lord of his life (even if he didn't understand all the theology involved).

    Any thoughts or comments?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  2. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
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    Good summary. I agree. I would add special not that the passage we are looking at begins with "Therefore.." Why is it there for?

    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    It is not the "sayers" that enter, but the doers.
     
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    It appears from the passages that Jesus does not speak of a third type of person. Someone who is a "christian" but not His disciple. You are either a disciple (saved) and act accordingly (build your house/life upon His words), or you are not.

    Thanks for the reply

    peace to you:praying:
     
  4. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac
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    canadyjd:

    Defining Lordship Salvation Dr. MacArthur says the Sermon on the Mount contains, “pure gospel.” (The Gospel According to Jesus [Revised & Expanded Edition], p. 203.)

    Do we find any mention of His death, burial and resurrection in the Sermon on the Mount? Do we find the cross, justification by faith, or new birth? Do we find any clear John 3:16 messages in the Sermon on the Mount?

    The Sermon on the Mount can reveal to a lost man his sin condition. The Sermon on the Mount will show all men that they are not righteous and fall short of the glory of God. The Sermon on the Mount may bring conviction. Where, however, in the Sermon on the Mount do we find, as Lordship advocates claim a “pure gospel” message?

    I wrote an article that address this very issue.

    Is the Sermon on the Mount “Pure Gospel?”


    LM
     
  5. skypair

    skypair
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    Yes, which is why we must respond to the gospel in order to have or receive faith. Again, right up front, "faith that is alone is dead."

    skypair
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    I'd rather not derail this thread on that subject.

    Concerning the passage under discussion, isn't it true that Jesus does not allow for a third type of person...someone who is "wise" (saved), but nevertheless, does not act upon His words?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    The "response" was action. He "built his house upon the rock".

    Building a house is symbolic of ordering one's life. The wise man's life was transformed. He understood and he acted. His desire was to behave in a way consistent with what he had heard. He built his life upon the words that Jesus had spoken. When persecution came, he was able to stand firm, because he stood upon the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus was Lord of his life.

    The foolish man did not act. His life didn't change. He didn't build his life around the words of Christ. Jesus was not Lord of his life. He fell away from Christ, thus proving he was unsaved all along.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  8. nunatak

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    First, it seems by what Christ said here that these people were doing. They prophesied, they cast out devils, and did many works. So in this case, it seems that the doers were left out.

    But Christ specifically said that only he that did the will of the Father. Not just doing miracles would serve to get you into eternal life, but doing the will of the Father.

    What is the will of the Father?

    Mar 3:35 For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."

    Joh 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

    Joh 6:28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"
    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

    Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

    So not all doers will enter heaven, but only those who did the will of the Father. Since it is God who works in us to will and to do, then truly salvation is completely the work of God apart from man.
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    Again, there is no third option, someone who is saved but doesn't do the will of God.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  10. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac
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    In the Sermon on the Mount do we find any mention of His death, burial and resurrection in the Sermon on the Mount? Do we find the cross, justification by faith, or new birth? Do we find any clear John 3:16 messages in the Sermon on the Mount?

    The Sermon on the Mount can reveal to a lost man his sin condition. The Sermon on the Mount will show all men that they are not righteous and fall short of the glory of God. The Sermon on the Mount may bring conviction. Where, however, in the Sermon on the Mount do we find, as Lordship advocates claim a “pure gospel” message?


    LM
     
  11. skypair

    skypair
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    PRECISELY!!

    Yes! "Ordering one's life" is an apt description of repenting and committing oneself to God!

    Not necessarily. "Behave" does not equal "believe" any more that "works" = "trust." Do you see the difference? What is the "foundation" of belief/trust? That is the issue.

    This is problematic from the POV that Jesus came into the OT dispensation but it was actually Paul's, Peter's, John's, etc. epistles that defined what 'words' we should obey.

    I know this is a "technicality," canady. But it helps us consider that the OT saints were "saved" very much differently than the NT saints in that they did not die with Jesus at the cross.

    skypair
     
  12. canadyjd

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    At least attempt to engage the passage of scripture.

    There is no 3rd type of person in the illustration which Jesus gives. You either "act" on His words (building your life accordingly), or you don't act and will be considered "foolish" and fall away from Christ.

    peace to you:praying:
     

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