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MBBC grads!!! Some thoughts on Dr. Cedarholm please!

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by superdave, Oct 23, 2003.

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  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Askjo - I expected someone who start cussing me out. Did you go to Maranatha? Let's keep the focus here on the college as requested.

    Cuss me out somewhere else. Matter of fact, start a thread on why Dr. Bob is going to hell for not thinking the TR is the only Greek. Where did God say the TR was correct and the other greek incorrect? Hmmm. I'll answer: HE DIDN'T!

    Hey, Erasmus didn't either. Us "natural" scholars have to stand together! :eek:
     
    #21 Dr. Bob, Oct 30, 2003
  2. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    God preserved His words in accurate Greek and Hebrew MSS. (Psalm 12:6-7)

    God used him for manuscript evidence because Erasmus rejected the Vaticanus manuscript and sent it back to Rome. Modern versions's favorite Greek text is B.

    Dr Thomas Strouse has his dedication to B. M. Cedarholm on his a book saying, "the one who first introducted me to the truth of the superority of the Textus Receptus."

    Do you know Strouse? Let me know.
     
    #22 Askjo, Oct 30, 2003
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Know him casually, since he came long after I left. Know that he espouses the TR superiority as did many from the later Cedarholm years.

    Some at MBBC held to the ecletic blend of greek in the TR as better than the eclectic blend of greek in the UBS. Some didn't.

    But KJVO is a whole 'nother matter. MBBC has never and, prayerfully, will never be in that sect.

    And your point is?
     
    #23 Dr. Bob, Oct 30, 2003
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Ahh, Dr. Bob, you've hit the nub of the matter: "...as did many from the later Cedarholm years." It is the alumni from that era who are leading the charge in this matter.
     
    #24 Squire Robertsson, Oct 31, 2003
  5. aefting

    aefting New Member

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    Interesting, the follow-on book to From the Mind of God to Mind of Man, has just been published. God's Word in Our Hands (available HERE deals directly with the preservation issue of the KJVO debate. In the book, they quote several prominent fundamentalists from the past who espoused the orthodox position (providential preservation) rather than the KJVO position of perfect preservation. Here are some quotes by R. V. Clearwaters from the 1960's:

    These quotes come from The Greate Conservative Baptist Compromise on pages 192 and 199, respectively.

    Andy
     
    #25 aefting, Dec 2, 2003
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    R.V. Clearwaters was my pastor from 1957-68. I was led to the Lord following his preaching and baptized Easter Sunday 1958. He taught from the 1901, but used the KJV1769 (Old Scofield) in the pulpit.

    How do I know? He'd announce the PAGE NUMBER so newbies could quickly find a text! And the church sold the 1909 Scofield at cost.

    The arrogance and schismatic spirit of a few MBBC KJVO sect grads notwithstanding, neither Clearwaters or Cedarholm would side with them.
     
    #26 Dr. Bob, Dec 3, 2003
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    </font>[/QUOTE]I don't think Squire could have put it any better. That is the stand that I took, and have taken since I went to Maranatha. I was there between 73-77. I don't recall that it was ever a serious issue back then. In my Greek class the teacher used the Nestle Aland text. I presume that it was used because of the inavailability of the TR, and also because of the critical notes at the bottom of the pages. The TR that I have today is printed by the Trinitarian Bible Society and has no critical notes whatsoever.

    Last year I discussed the issue personally with Dr. Oates, as he (as well as Maranatha) became the target of an attack by Pensacola, who lumped us in with BJU, as those who did not uphold the KJV. Dr. Oates said that it was, and still is a non-issue. Dr. Cedarholm did take the position that most of you have cited: the text preserved in the TR. He would always use the King James, though would never be a KJVO. There were some teachers, and still are, that do believe in the critical text. They realize what the position of the school is. This is a doctrine that comes under the area of soul liberty, and should not be one to break fellowship over. The teachers are there to teach their various disciplines or fields, not to vent a hobby horse. I believe that all on the faculty and staff realize that, and thus no problem arises.
    DHK
     
    #27 DHK, Dec 3, 2003
  8. superdave

    superdave New Member

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    That is exactly what my understanding of the situation was, I am glad that I was not talking crazy talk when I objected to his name being used to endorse blatant KJVO heresy. I obviously am aware that Dr. Cedarholm held to the KJV, as do many who graduated under his ministry, but the KJVO splinter cell would fall outside the position of the school, thanks for all the great input
     
    #28 superdave, Dec 4, 2003
  9. Rob't K. Fall

    Rob't K. Fall New Member

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    I knew Dr. Cedarholm up close and personal in my time at West Point on the Rock River, as the Squire calls dear ol' MBBC. I think I can fairly say, if he were alive today and still active speaking at Chapel, we'd be hearing annual/semesterly messages entitled "Why Maranatha is not a KJVO school." All that in 30 minutes plus a sentence or two dealing with storehouse tithing, the importance of a Bible College education, the call to go into full time Christian ministry, ect.. I can still remember and have my Preacher Boy's notes from his message "Why Maranatha is not a Landmark school."
     
    #29 Rob't K. Fall, Dec 4, 2003
  10. superdave

    superdave New Member

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    Interestingly enough, I was at MBBC when Dr. Weniger preached a message with almost that exact title, and I have seen the transcript of one by Dr. Jaspers.

    The School has not drifted far from the founders dearly held principles, which is an amazing thing for a school with several changes in administration.
     
    #30 superdave, Dec 5, 2003
  11. Rob't K. Fall

    Rob't K. Fall New Member

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    WARNING-I AM WRITTING THIS WAY AFTER THE FACT, WITH 20/20 HINDSIGHT, AND A 2000+ MILE DISTANCE FROM THE SITUATION.

    Regretfully, due to the way the change from Dr. Cedarholm to Dr. Wenigar was handled, Dr. Wenigar's exposition of Marantha's position carries little weight with many alumni. If Bud had come a little earlier and served as Executive Vice President as Dr. Charles Davis did in my time there, he would have a little more crediblity. As it stands, many of us never got the chance to be in school with him. It seemed that all of a sudden a change had happened on West Main Street. Maybe after taking so many of our administrative clues from BJU, we kind of expected the same sort of slow but obvious change of leadership. This means Dr. Wenigar did not have the opportunity to develop a standing with the alumni while they were still in school. (Think of the glacial pace the change has been from Dr. Bob Senior to Jr. to III and now to Steven Jones. With each change, the incoming leader was able to establish a rapport with the students of his generation while serving at a lower level of leadership at the University.)
     
    #31 Rob't K. Fall, Dec 6, 2003
  12. superdave

    superdave New Member

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    I am a young'n, so Ill defer to the wiser members of this thread on that issue.

    I am not sure how comparable the two schools are regarding the transition of leadership, I mean, it is not Cedarholm University, probably for some very good reasons, likely the least of which is that Dr. Cedarholm did not have a namesake. A family business changes hands a little different than one run by stockholders. Probably plenty of flaws in that analogy, but there it is.
     
    #32 superdave, Dec 6, 2003
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