Memory of the Lost

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Martin, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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    What happens, in eternity, when a saved person's loved one is not saved? Does the saved person, who is in heaven at this point, remember their lost loved one? If so, how do they remember them?

    These are good questions and, lets keep in mind, questions that the Bible does not spend a lot of time trying to answer. Therefore there maybe some honest disagreement over this issue. However there are a handful of Scriptures that I, and others, believe give us at least a hint of an answer.

    The book of Proverbs tells us that "the memory of the righteous is blessed, but the name of the wicked will rot" (10:7). Those who have lived on this earth, and have rejected God's offer of salvation, will not be remembered in eternity. Their names will rot, their names will be no more. The Psalmist says, concerning the wicked, "may they be blotted out of the book of life and may they not be recorded with the righteous" (69:28). The names of the wicked will not be written in God's book of life and they will be cast into the eternal lake of fire (Rev 20:15). Their memory will be no more.

    What does this mean? In practical terms it means that when you get to heaven you will no longer have the same relationship with your unsaved loved ones. I don't know whether or not we will remember them in a personal way, but I do know that our relationship with them will be broken. Their names "will rot" and they are "not...recorded with the righteous". In eternity those of us who are saved will be able to see those in hell. The Word of God tells us that the saved "will go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all mankind" (Is 66:24). There is no hint that we will shed tears over them or mourn for them. The idea that is presented here is that we will, at that time, view them as the rightful targets of God's Holy Wrath. Whatever love or feelings we may have once had for them will be gone.

    In other words, God will not allow us to turn heaven into hell by mourning for our eternally damned loved ones (Rev 21:4). In some way, our memory of that person will be no more and our relationship with them will be totally changed. The memory of the wicked will rot and they will not be recorded with the righteous.

    To me, this represents both a wonderful blessing and a terrible curse. It is a blessing in that we will live forever with God and we will live with him in a joyful state. It is a curse in that our loved ones in hell will have lost all hope, all love, all joy, all peace, and they will have lost it for all eternity.

    What should this make us do?

    Witness to our loved ones and friends. Pray for them, pray that the Lord will work in their hearts and bring them to Himself. God can do this, but He has commanded us to do our part (Matt 28:16-20).

    Let us keep these things in mind as we debate theology on these boards.
     
    #1 Martin, Dec 2, 2007
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  2. Allan

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    Now Martin, as a Calvinist you should know that God does not "OFFER" salvation :laugh:
    Just teasing you.

    I think we have to look at this (as you have done) not from a stand point of now but then. Now, all that we see is in direct accordance with all that we know (which is very little on the full scale all things) so we go one OUR perspective, emotions for those we love, et... But in heaven the redeemed will know as we are known for we will be 'like' he is. We know even now in what manner we will appear for it shall be the same manner as Christ's appearing.
    Do these verse not encompass that we will know not only ourselves but all men, for as Christ knows them shall we not also?
    Does not 1 Cor state that we even now in the flesh have the mind of Christ? THough we are encombured by sin and the flesh that we do not know all that God would have us to know and do, there will come a time when we have nothing to hinder and will all that He would have us to know. Even know through a glass darkly we can snese that blessed fellowship of believers and at times even the rebellion of the lost and hatred toward God who has been gracious and merciful. A time will come when the flesh and emotions will not ruling our judgment but the truth and righteousness/holiness will be our guide and judge.

    Backing up however, the completness of what this "knowing' entails is purely suspect as to it's FULL extent. Does it mean that we will know all that God knows? Or does it mean we will know all that we (as His creation) were created to know within the relm of our relationship and the new creation.

    I say this only to establish that what ever that 'knowledge' will be, it DOES encompass the knowledge that of all God has done toward mankind in mercy and grace (we will know the full extent) and we will see each mans response to it without the hinderance of the unknown. We will see it all in the TRUTH of it all and will have no pity for those who reject the mercy and grace of God INCLUDING toward our own loved ones. And those who will be damned, will be so at OUR rejoicing that Gods Judgment is true, righteous, and holy! For that is exactly what scripture declares it will be like.

     
    #2 Allan, Dec 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2007
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Theology/doctrine from songs:

    And the things of Earth
    Will grow strangely dim,
    In the Light of His Glory & Grace
     
  4. LeBuick

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    All I know is we get a new name written and sealed in a stone;

    Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    And there will be no marriage;

    Mt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
    30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
    31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
    32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
    33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

    I guess we'll have to die to know for sure..
     
  5. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    What about Isaiah 65:17?

    I think that supports what you are saying Martin, that there will come a time when we don't remember the former things.
     
  6. saturneptune

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    Is it possible we will remember, but not really be concerned about earthly relationships? Maybe we will look at our relatives like the guy down the street.

    Another question I have always wondered about, will the lost in hell remember their relationships and lives?
     
  7. Allan

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    I believe so, if we understand the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich man as expounding spiritual truths of hell and those in it.
     
  8. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Martin: I was going to answer your question, but I couldn't have answered it better than you did. :laugh:
     
  9. Aaron

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    Excellent. The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. Ps. 58:10
     
  10. Grasshopper

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    What about death and sin? If you are using verse 17 as heaven how do you explain verse 29 and following?
    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. And the things before will not be remembered, nor come to mind.
    Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
    Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and I will rejoice in My people; and the voice of weeping will no more be heard in her, nor the voice of crying be heard in her.



    Isa 65:20
    There will not be an infant, nor an old man that has not filled his days. For the child will die a hundred years old; but the sinner who is a hundred years old will be despised.
     
  11. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I am not sure what your asking Grasshopper. There is no verse 29 in Isaiah 65. Did you mean verse 19 or verse 20? Verse 19 is pretty simple, it is verse 20 that gets confusing.

    This passage (Isaiah 65:17-25) is all about the new heaven and new earth created after the Millenium. It is given here to the remnant of Israel as a source of hope for the future.

    If you read all of Isaiah. I believe you will see (as I believe) that the remnat here is not the remnant of Israel after their captivity, but the remnant that is brought into the church and saved by Jesus Christ. Looking at the entire chapter I see first a prophecy of the age of grace for the Gentiles that we live in today. Verses 1-10 I believe speaks of the Gentiles:
    Yet within this church of the Gentiles there are also Jews present:
    In verses 11-16 we see that judgment is poured out on those Jews that reject Christ, but starting in verse 17 we see the final glory and joy that Christians shall see. The line in here that I thought referred to our memory in those days is found in verse 17
    But verse 20 is difficult. The rest of the passage is pretty easy but what does it mean when it says “the child shall die a hundred years old?” I think God is saying that there will be no more death based on verse 19 and the fact that there will be no more weeping or crying, that we will no longer die like we did when we were sinners. Even though a sinner might live to be 100 he still died and was still accursed. But in that day someone even 100 years old will be like a child. That is what I think, but I am not sure, it is a difficult verse. Anyone else have a different idea?
     

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