Messianic Judaism

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Gina B, Jul 12, 2001.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    What are your thoughts on this? Do you see anything wrong or false about it? Like in Baptist churches, there are many different "flavors" of it, so please try to stick with the basic universal teachings of it and not what some of them do.
    Gina
     
  2. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina asked:

    What are your thoughts on this? Do you see anything wrong or false about it?

    [irony]Yes, if any Jew accepts Christ, it's just terribly, terribly wrong.[/irony]
     
  3. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom:
    Gina asked:

    What are your thoughts on this? Do you see anything wrong or false about it?

    [irony]Yes, if any Jew accepts Christ, it's just terribly, terribly wrong.[/irony]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ransom:

    I think what Gina was referring to was not Jews who come to believe in their Messiah, but Messianic Congregations who claim Christ as Savior but still hold to Judaism.

    Messianic congregations have every right to practice judaic services as long as they do not add works to the gospel of grace alone through faith alone. However some Messianic congregations do not allow Gentile believers to be members, and this is in direct violation of the Scriptures, which teach that there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for believers are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:28).
     
  4. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Cute Ransom. I am asking because I am a Jew, (though disowned by most) and in religion I have accepted Christ. There is no temple in my area. I have been called Hitler's child, blah blah blah, because I haven't been holding the traditions and for other reasons. My situation now is I really feel that the traditions should be kept, that Jesus was the Messiah,and the only people I know of that do this are the messianic congregations.
    Chris, thank you for your reply. Ransom, since you showed an interest by clicking on the subject, do you have any semi-intelligent input? ;) Guess I can't say that TOO sarcastically, as I've been an idiot myself a number of times here on this board.
    Gina
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gina - I grew up in a marginally Jewish backround (grandma from Bohemia was Jewish by culture, but no one practiced it). Went to Talmud Torah school and most friends and classmates were fully practicing Jews.

    I accepted Christ as Savior AND Messiah in 1957. Enjoy the unique blend of Jewish roots with true NT doctrine that Messianic congregations bring.

    Wonderful group in suburban Dallas (Temple Beth Sar Shalom) and a large (225+) Messianic congregation in Minneapolis - just visited with some there last Saturday.

    Hey, I wear Orange to celebrate my Irish heritage (esp. today). All of us bring some culture and heritage into our worship and practice. So I bring in some "Jewishness" into my Baptist church.

    Always pray at the Lord's Supper "Baruch atoh Adonai, elohenu melek h'olam, ha'matzoh lechem mein h'eretz" and have taught our folks its meaning. Ties into our roots.

    Every read Edith Schaeffer's "Christianity is Jewish"? Helps the goyim out there to understand why we try to keep our roots alive.
     
  6. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    I haven't read it, but I'll be sure to check it out! We held the Passover supper at our Baptist church, which was nice, but the pastor's gone now. Also, even though he tried, it's just not the same without the blessings properly done and the wine.( :eek: ) Sorry folks, I do.
    Right now there isn't anywhere around to visit. The closest I know of is Cleveland. I heard a rumor of one being in the city next to me, but I haven't found it.
    I really have a hard time understanding anyone that would be against keeping the traditions. Jesus did, for Pete's sake! And ours!
    Gin
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    Always pray at the Lord's Supper "Baruch atoh Adonai, elohenu melek h'olam, ha'matzoh lechem mein h'eretz" and have taught our folks its meaning. Ties into our roots.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Cool...Dr. Bob,

    That is the prayer that the three year olds at my wife's school sing everytime before snacks and lunch. I am going to take a shot at translation and you tell me how I do:

    "The Bread that comes from the earth"---HaMotzie Lechem min haaretz

    "Blessed are thou Lord, Our God is king of all eternity"---Baruch ata adoni, elihenu melek haolam.

    Joseph
     
  8. Ransom

    Ransom
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina said:

    Ransom, since you showed an interest by clicking on the subject, do you have any semi-intelligent input? ;)

    Sure. The first thing I think of when someone says "messianic Jew" is simply a Jew who has received Christ, plus a certain theological perspective that seems to come with that: that he is now a "fulfilled Jew" who doesn't see Jesus simply as Lord and Saviour (as I do, more or less, as a Gentile), but as the culmination of the religion to which he previously subscribed. I have no problem with this; that is nothing more than the theology of the epistle to the Hebrews (i.e. "Jesus is better than _____").

    Another thing that comes to mind would be those Jews who receive Christ, then remain distinctly Jewish in their lifestyle and traditions, perhaps joining a church where the service is conducted in Hebrew, that observes the old holy days, and so forth. Again, there is nothing wrong with this, provided it is kept in the proper perspective: Christians acting Jewish is OK but it's not something you can impose upon other believers. The Jewish apostles in Jerusalem did not impose even circumcision on the Gentile believers, let alone the whole Law and all its observances (Acts 15). As Paul says, let each be convinced in his own mind, and don't judge or look down on those who disagree with your traditions (Rom. 15).
     
  9. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    [​IMG] Thank you.
    Gina
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Jbot - Cool back at you, did a good job of translating my "phonetic Hebrew".

    How about the other phrases "Bo-ray p'ree hagofin"?

    Or "Sh'ma Y'israel: Adonai elohenu, Adonai ehud!"

    Actually have printed them in the bulletin so we can break the hidden middle pience of matzoh (the afikomen) at our Lord's Supper and recite it as the Jews in Jesus' day would have done.

    I wear a yarmulke and tallith shawl under my suitcoat when I do my Messianic messages and special conferences.

    Did I mention we built a Tabernacle out of pvc pipe and dyed bed sheets from the Holiday Inn? Half size - and had walk through time for a whole week of VBS. Kids loved the "hands on" approach, and teachers learned a whole lot!
     
  11. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Baruch ata adonai elohainu melech ha-olam hamotzi lehem min ha-aretz.
    Blessed art Thou, Lord our G-d,King of the universe, who brings forth bread from the earth.

    [ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Gina ]
     
  12. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Let me take an extremely wild guess at Dr. Bob's second phrase. Hear, Oh Israel, the Lord our G-d, G-d is one Lord.
    Laugh, but only if you must. ;)
    Gina
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    Baruch ata adonai elohainu melech ha-olam hamotzi lehem min ha-aretz.
    Blessed art Thou, Lord our G-d,King of the universe, who brings forth bread from the earth.

    [ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Gina ]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    melech: king
    ha-olam: eternity
    hamotzi: the bread
    lechem: food, bread, grain
    min: from
    ha-aretz: the earth

    I apologize Gina, but I cannot find any of those words that translates as "who brings" unless it is just implied because of the context.

    Joseph
     
  14. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, something's gotta hold it together!
    I'm gonna go cry now. Just kidding. [​IMG] What about the other one? Anywhere close?
    Gina
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina, I think you are correct on that one...although, I cannot find Sh'mah in my lexicon being translated as "Hear". But looking at the rest of the sentence, that seems to make sense.

    Joseph
     
  16. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Cool. Thanks.
    Gina
    Ok. I wasn't gonna touch the first one, but now that I may be on a roll (must be getting a migraine-it's the only time my brain works!), does it have something to do with creating? Fruit of the vine? Existing? I'm reaching here now. I think I'll quit after this one. But I do feel challenged!
    :D

    [ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Gina ]
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    The first word "boray" looks like a conjugated form of "Bara": He created. I am not sure which one it is because I can't find my Hebrew Grammer to look at the various conjugations.

    Joseph
     
  18. Joy

    Joy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just an observation from my own life-

    I grew up a few houses down from a Jewish family, and we became quite close. I became nanny to the children in my teen years, so I spent a lot of time in their home, even after they moved across town.

    I tried to be a good testimony and witness to them as well, but unfortunately, because of their heritage, they saw that I was joyful in the Lord and had peace, but associated it with all of the IFB man-made laws that I kept. I watched as they grew more and more orthodox, as they searched for the inner peace that I had. Today, they are Hassidic (don't know how to spell it, please correct me), and they travel back and forth to Israel a lot.

    It still bothers me that they actually made a verbal connection with my works and theirs. All I can do now is pray for them. I often wish that I knew then, what I know now about the legalism that plagues IFB churches.
     

Share This Page

Loading...