metaphysical understanding

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UnchartedSpirit, Dec 4, 2005.

  1. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    One of the problems with arguing with athiests and skeptics our faith is their and maybe our lack of understanding to the concept, or the existence of a spirit, and/or(?) a soul. I've also noticed that I have verlly little knowledge about spirits, which makes me feel foolish when I talk about spiritual matters to nonbelievers. What is this will that extends beyond our chemistry and physical desires? What is our true 'being' that God attatched this flesh to? How does it connect to the electronic programming of the brain, and respond to the molecular activities that we consist of? Can it truely take a visual presense inside or outside ourselves? How do we detrimine our spirits will and emotion over our flesh? And can the spirit only be examined through metaphysical practise, or is it something we discover through scripture reading by communicating with God's spirit, or can science someday be able to 'see' a spirit and examine it? It's all starting to confuse me now, can there even be a direct answer to this?
     
  2. Ed Edwards

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    Short briefing for the Christian on
    everything they need to know about spirits
    and the spirit world:

    J E S U S
     
  3. Bro. James

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    The direct answer: That which is flesh is flesh; that which is spirit is spirit. You must be born again. See John ch. 3.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  4. Humblesmith

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    We are creatures that are spirit-body. I think our spirits are tied to our flesh, which is why our bodies will ressurect. Spirits are invisible, as pointed out in a few verses in the NT that say so. But don't think that the spirit is the main part of you, and the flesh is secondary.....The flesh is an essential part of our being.

    Metaphysics is not really the study of spirits, but in philosophy, it's the study of being. What type of beings are we? What is God's nature? That type of thing.
     
  5. Ransom

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    Metaphysics is not really the study of spirits, but in philosophy, it's the study of being.

    No, it's the study of the nature of reality. The study of being is ontology.

    Metaphysics covers the nature of reality, the relationship of mind and body, the existence of God or spiritual realms, and various other subjects.
     
  6. Humblesmith

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    I stand corrected.
     
  7. HankD

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    Metaphysics (Merriam-Webster Online).
    (1) : a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology
    (2) : ONTOLOGY 2 b : abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience

    As an engineering major (Syracuse U at Utica) I took a course in Metaphyics as a partial fulfilment of the humanities prerequisites.

    My biggest problem was staying awake in class. [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  8. Humblesmith

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    What......?
    As an engineer, you didn't stay awake nights wondering about the connection of Force to Being? And how to calculate it?

    Plus, all you had to do on your thermodynamics final was to say "you can't prove that it's really there" and they'd have to pass you.
     
  9. HankD

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    In those days Humble, I didn't lose much sleep about anything [​IMG]

    I'm a software architect/engineer, applications not systems, so we don't worry that much about the Laws of Thermodynamics (are there still only 3 or 4 of them?).

    HankD
     
  10. UnchartedSpirit

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    but I still don't get what thoughts are my bodies and what thoughts are my hearts? How do I know I'm willingly choosing to like avacados or not, for example? And what powers does my newborn spirit have, aside from spiritual gifts, can I though faith gain metaphysical power over my chemistry?
     
  11. Filmproducer

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    Unchartedspirit,

    Metaphysics is a way of thinking, as is all of philosophy, really. Faith and being are two separate entities. In 1641, Rene Descartes, in Meditations on First Philosophy, tried to "prove" his "faith based" theology to no avail.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but your line of thought seems to follow that of Descartes. How can I "prove" my faith to nonbelievers? How do I "know" that my faith is "real"? That is the beauty of faith, though. You cannot "prove" its truth. Truth and faith are subjective, and that is why Paul wrote Romans 14. Think of Abraham when you consider your faith. His faith was so real that he was willing to sacrifice his son, Isaac, for it. Soren Kierkegaard, an existential philosopher in the 1940's, called him a "knight of faith", or rather someone willing to give up everything, believing "by virtue of the absurd" that he will gain it all back in the end; therefore living his life according to his faith, not his "reason". Note that by absurd, Kierkegaard is not calling faith absurd, but that what society would consider absurd. For example, to most nonbelievers, maybe even some believers, the willingness to sacrifice one's son would be absurd.
     
  12. UnchartedSpirit

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    So I can't have telekenesis, esp, or anything even if it's for God?
     
  13. Filmproducer

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    I have never really thought about it before. On the surface I would say, no, but then again I have not studied it. I can say that it has nothing to do with metaphysics in any sort of philosophical stance, (I have a degree in philosophy and in poly sci from UK).
     
  14. Filmproducer

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    Are you asking whether or not you can attain these "powers", and therefore use them to "prove" the existence of God?
     
  15. UnchartedSpirit

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    uh, honestly I just wanted super powers, but could they glorify God in humanities sake of does humanities view on God's glory matter? But the first question was what does the spirit contribute to our identies? Do any other earth creation have spirits? Can we really express ourselves as unbelievers through our spirits, or is that already dead and all our actions are merely biological until we meet Christ and then our true will is given to us?
     
  16. HankD

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    Here is the infallible way to reality:

    Make Jesus Christ your ground of being.

    Matthew 7
    24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
    26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
    27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

    KJV Psalm 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

    KJV Proverbs 18:10 The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

    HankD
     
  17. UnchartedSpirit

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    so The Lord is our Spirit, he attaches himself to our biological bodies, otherwise we have no spiritual life in us? We havent even covered souls yet!
     
  18. HankD

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    "Filled" Uncharted, we should be filled with the Spirit [​IMG]

    Ephesians 5
    18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
    20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

    HankD
     
  19. Bro. James

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    We continue to prove that we are made from clay--we have much difficulty with the part about becoming a "living soul".

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  20. Humblesmith

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    First, truth is not subjective, but always objective. Whatever is true, is true for everyone.

    Second, Uncharted, you should forget the metaphysics. In a modern popular way, it's used in a different sense than in classic philosophy. If you're really looking for some sort of "power" through your own efforts, this is not healthy. Draw close to God, and he will give you whatever power He wants you to have, and will do it in His own timing, not yours. If your statement about telekenisis was legitimate (you're serious?), then you should know that things like telekenesis are occultic, and you should not try to obtain any type of secret or super powers. Again, God will give you whatever power He wants you to have. Don't get caught up in occultic desires.

    Thirdly, your question was "what does the spirit contribute to our identities?" Our identity is both spirit and body, they are not separable. Do not think of yourself as partly body and partly spirit. For Christians, our spirits have been made new.
     

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